HD100 Just died

[Taddeusz]

I finally cracked my HD100 open last night. Those three capacitors were fine.

[Steve]

gibsonpa - that's great that so far they are good, hopefully they stay that way. It's quite possible that there are runs of boards that won't have any issue and so I do need to agree with Jeff on the point of not getting paranoid. I don't think people need to run out and proactively buy parts before the unit fails, its not like a hurricane is coming or anything. Since RS usually has them in stock its real easy to just go get them if and when your extender dies.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by merneric

Further, while I agree with most of your posts, you do seem to be a little schizophrenic in that in one sense you seem to be suggesting that there IS a problem, and now you seem to be suggesting that perhaps there may NOT be a problem, and that it is merely alleged.

Well, basically my thoughts all along have been mainly there's something awfully suspicious here. I've been trying to compile information mainly to force Sage to respond to the issue. They did that, which sort of makes me feel a little better. Although, I don't see why if, say, over the next 3 months we get 30 more reports of failures we won't end up back where we were yesterday, when there's even more evidence of some type of problem.

"Problem" is a vague term getting thrown around that can obviously be interpreted different ways. Obviously some HD100s have a problem, and I think the repair program and Jeff indication that he's done some research on the capacitor manufacturer indicates they have some concerns, which I think we'd all say is rightly so even if there really isn't a manufacturing defect or exorbitant return rates (Tangent: Is there any way for us to independently verify anything about the capacitors' makeup or origin?).

In any event, when I say problem in this thread, I'm often referring to a widespread problem in design or manufacturing. This certainly is just an alleged problem for now, since we barely have any information on this issue. I think mainly the most I've said is that it's relatively likely the manufacturer used bad caps. I guess I'm inclined to now say it's a little bit less likely than I thought, but certainly above "normal". In the meantime, I see no particularly good reason not to cautiously trust Jeff, until we get more information.

But I'd still like an answer to my previous question to Jeff, which is basically summed up as: Is there any way that we can verify any part of what you're telling us? I'm open to all sorts of incomplete, imperfect ideas/suggestions.

The point that I was trying to make is that after 32 cases and who knows how many more (potentially) that there is indeed a problem, albeit perhaps a very very small one--we just do not know.

I completely agree.

And with that, I have suddenly realized why it is that I am reluctant to post to these types of forums, as it seems to all too easily devolve into this sort of Flame-War back and forth, that really contributes very little.

I actually think this thread, except for until a couple recent posts, has stayed remarkably civil compared to what I think you'd find in other forums on similar issues. There's some arguments and disagreements, but generally the tone has not been hostile to one another, or even particularly hostile to Sage.

By the way, thank you Taddeusz and gibsonpa for opening up your HD100s. If it turns out there is a problem, the percentage of HD100s that stop working would probably be relatively small, but (perhaps incorrectly) I would think the number of bulging capacitors would be quite high. So, I think reports of non-bulging capacitors are quite helpful at corroborating Jeff's claims. I wonder if we should post some pictures of leaking/bulging/normal capacitors for people with less experience with electronics.

[merneric]

Ok, now maybe I'm the one being schizophrenic on this, but I just have to chime in [again]...

If you are not having a problem with your HD-100, there is really no reason to "crack it open" just to look and see. Back to our medical analogies, that would sort of be like doing an open laparotomy on an o/w healty individual, just because their neighbor or a family member is sick. My other two HD-100's are doing just fine, and I have no intention of "cracking them" just to see if the caps look ok.

Perhaps "healthy paranoia" is indeed too strong of a word. What I should probably say is, that now that I know what to look for, high pitched whine, blinking red light, etc, I will be a little bit more "alert" and know what to do and how to fix, but I am definitely NOT going to lose sleep over it.

Again, I think this thread is useful, and I think it will be interesting to see what develops, but lets hold off on performing "exploratory surgery" on our Hd-100's unless there are definitive signs and symptoms first.

[Taddeusz]

In my case I had previously been hearing a high pitched whine with my HD100. It's not very difficult to open the HD100. A total of 5 screws and about 5min. I always try to err on the side of caution.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by merneric

If you are not having a problem with your HD-100, there is really no reason to "crack it open" just to look and see.

Certainly, the person opening up their completely functional HD100 has little to benefit. But, it's sort of what we (HD100 customers concerned about this) are left with. Keeping track of failures is only so helpful when you don't know anything about sales information. It would sort of be nice to randomly select, say, 100 HD100 users on the forum and have them check for symptoms, but we can't really do that. So, we're basically just left with doing things on a voluntary basis- both for positive and negative results.

There's also little reason to not open up the HD100 case. Sure, it takes a couple minutes, but there's nothing to it and it's really no more dangerous than opening up your computer case.

[tmiranda]

I have two HD-100's; one from the first batch and one from the second. They have been on 24x7 since I bought them. No issues on either.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I have two HD-100's; one from the first batch and one from the second. They have been on 24x7 since I bought them. No issues on either.

Out of curiosity, are you saying you haven't noticed any symptoms, or that you opened the case and inspected the capacitors?

[JREkiwi]

I keep opening up my HD-100 and checking the capacitors, but they never seem to be bulging. How often should I be checking, to make sure that I don't have a problem without me noticing it?

But I've also read that Consumer Electronics have a average failure rate of 15% (Xbox-360=16%, PS3=3%, Ipod=15%)

So, based on an average failure rate and the failures reported here, is anyone suggesting that there were only 213 HD-100s sold?

Judging by the order numbers that people were posting when the HD-100 first became available, you would have to believe that there were at least 500 just in the first batch. Even if all the failures are from this batch it's a 6% failure rate.

Assuming that even if the next 2 batches were only 500 each then the failure rate reported here is 2%

I've just checked again, and my capacitors still aren't bulging. Maybe I should check once more.

[Narflex]

We have worked on continuously improving product quality and in the HD100 case we have had a little over 1% failure rate in the first year. We have tried to provide convenient warranty service for folks in the first year and after the first year we have tried to provide affordable out of warranty service. For any HD100 power supply problems that don't show signs of abuse or intentional damage we have now been able to reduce the out of warranty service price to $39 including return shipping in the US (International additional cost) and we currently include a 1 year warranty extension with the $39 power supply out of warranty service. Customers who have paid the $60 power supply service fee previously can get in touch with SageTV for a store credit.



While the HD100 product quality is near industry norms, we have tried to improve the quality of our HD200 and have seen fewer issues with that product and it uses a different power supply from the HD100. We truly appreciate everyone's support, patience and understanding. We will continue to try to provide the best quality product and support services we can at the best price we can.

[JREkiwi]

Jeff, thanks for the info and the updated warranty plans. It did spoil my ironic paranoia post though.

John

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Narflex

We have worked on continuously improving product quality and in the HD100 case we have had a little over 1% failure rate in the first year.

Thank you for that information. I think a 1% failure rate is quite good. Of course, that also gives us a lower bound on the number of HD100s sold. Congratulations! I knew it would be a popular product for the niche that Sage markets to, I just never knew (and still don't, really) the size of that niche market.

Originally Posted by Narflex

While the HD100 product quality is near industry norms, we have tried to improve the quality of our HD200 and have seen fewer issues with that product and it uses a different power supply from the HD100.

The move to an external power supply was a good one. Even if there are problems, they should be rather cheap and easy to fix.

Originally Posted by JREkiwi

But I've also read that Consumer Electronics have a average failure rate of 15% (Xbox-360=16%, PS3=3%, Ipod=15%)

You really think a 15% failure rate for something like the HD100 would be reasonable? The XBox360 has been widely criticized for being unreliable. As you noted, PS3's have a failure rate around 3%, and I've read Wii's failure rates are even lower, at around 1%. And, iPods take much, much more of a beating in their normal lives than a box sitting in an AV rack. But, certainly anything moderately close to 1% seems quite good.

[merneric]

Ok, I for one am very satisfied (and grateful) for this response from Narflex and from Sage. I think this is very reasonable, and I hope for their sake and for ours that this is indeed a somewhat isolated "problem."

All we can do now is sit back and see what happens...

[bastafidli]

Hello Narflex. I appreciate your response and have been happy Sage customer for almost a year and a half exactly for this reason.

[tmiranda]

Lowered the repair cost to $39, drats! I was waiting for mine to die so I could get a $60 credit towards a new 200.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Narflex

For any HD100 power supply problems that don't show signs of abuse or intentional damage we have now been able to reduce the out of warranty service price to $39 including return shipping in the US (International additional cost) .

Wow! $39 might actually make me go thru Sage to fix my HD100 rather than doing it myself (especially with the additional 1 year warranty on the power supply.

[Brent]

Great move SageTV!

[nick_l]

Add another one to the list. It's not dead, but well on the way. It started making the hissing/whistling noise on Saturday. It's part of the original 12/07 batch.

One thing I noticed on mine, the ir range got significantly worse when it started. It's almost as if it had the original faceplate back on. I have to point the remote directly at it to work, whereas I could basically point it anywhere in the room before. Did anyone else notice this behavior on theirs?

Thanks,
Nick

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nick_l

One thing I noticed on mine, the ir range got significantly worse when it started. It's almost as if it had the original faceplate back on. I have to point the remote directly at it to work, whereas I could basically point it anywhere in the room before. Did anyone else notice this behavior on theirs?

I'm not entirely convinced it's not just a strange coincidence, but I noticed something like this too. I don't seem to have this issue anymore after sending the unit in for repair.

[nick_l]

Ok, one trip to Radio Shack and five dollars later all is well again. IR Sensativity is even back to normal, woohoo.

I did learn one thing today, While my soldering skills are perfectly adequate my de-soldering skills are absolutely AWFUL.

Nick