Issues With Netgear GS116 Gigabit Switch

[markettwain]

I'm submitting a bug report, but I thought I'd post this here as well to see if anyone else is experiencing the same thing or if anyone has any suggestions that might help.

Here's the problem: My server has a fresh install of Windows XP Pro and is running SageTV 6.5.16. On my HD-200 I've tried the last three beta firmwares, 20090526, 20090528, and 20090602, and all three suffer the same problems with sluggishness.

The menus are difficult to navigate as commands from the remote don't take effect until several seconds after I press the button. Every single type of media I have plays back as if it's in slow motion. I've tried SageTV recordings, mkv files, avi files, DVD folders, etc. The picture is a series of jerky images, and the sound is either absent or garbled. The box is just all-around sluggish and unusable.

If I flash back to the last non-beta firmware, 20081230, all of the sluggishness goes away and the files (except for certain mkv files) play fine.

I'd rather be using a newer, beta firmware with all of its fixes and added functionalities, but obviously I can't under the circumstances.

Any ideas on what's causing this or what I can do about it? Any input is greatly appreciated!

[jlabrue]

I'm feeling your same pain exactly. Sluggish and several files I recorded from some time ago stutter constantly and are unwatchable. They are 1080i from a Vbox that works great on all other channels. New stuff that is recorded works great so far it is just older recordings. I have NOT filed a bug report yet just because I haven't had time to mess with it AND they play fine on my HD100 with the latest firmware for it so I have been watching them there. This happened after upgradeing to .16 Sage and the last two beta firmwares had the same result. My current firmware is from 6-02 and it still skips. Hope to have some time to troubleshoot and send a bug report soon but haven't.

Edit: Also, I have not rolled back the firmware to see if that fixes it yet.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by markettwain

Here's the problem: My server has a fresh install of Windows XP Pro and is running SageTV 6.5.16. On my HD-200 I've tried the last three beta firmwares, 20090526, 20090528, and 20090602, and all three suffer the same problems with sluggishness.

On the face of it, that sounds pretty similar to my system and I haven't had any problems. How consistent are these problems? What else can you tell us about your particular system (e.g., specific hardware, network configuration, customizations, etc.).

[markettwain]

Originally Posted by reggie14

On the face of it, that sounds pretty similar to my system and I haven't had any problems. How consistent are these problems? What else can you tell us about your particular system (e.g., specific hardware, network configuration, customizations, etc.).

Thanks for the replies! And to whomever moved this thread, sorry I posted it in the wrong place originally.

I don't have any customizations whatsoever. The network is all gigabit speed over cat 5e. I'll have to get back to you on the hardware specs (gotta climb up into the attic to figure that out).

I don't think the problem is with any of my hardware since with a simple firmware flash I can make the problem go away. Maybe my logic's wrong there, but I don't see how.

I just now flashed the HD-200 back to 20090602 so I could see if it was sluggish in standalone mode as well (I'd only previously tested it as a SageTV media extender), and it is. No luck there.

I've had similar problems with recent betas that might be related to this. With 20090505 my DVDs all skipped and didn't play right, though everything else worked pretty well. With 20090429 I don't recall any problems with any file types, but I didn't have that one installed very long so I didn't test it very much. With 20090403 my DVDs played well, but my mkv files didn't. After that, I'm a bit hazy...

Is there some sort of error log I can turn on that'll give some insight into what's happening? Just a thought.

[SHS]

Have you try disable the MS firewall or any other Firewall?.
Reboot your Router and Network Hub or Switches.

[markettwain]

Originally Posted by SHS

Have you try disable the MS firewall or any other Firewall?.
Reboot your Router and Network Hub or Switches.

Wow! I just checked my Firewall, and it is on. I specifically turned it off last week, yet here it is back on. Nice catch!

I think I have it properly disabled now in the Windows Security Center. Previously I had just turned it off. This time I clicked on "Recommendations" and then checked the box saying "I have a firewall solution that I'll monitor myself..."

I'll reboot everything and see if this makes a difference. Thank you for the help!

Fingers crossed...

[reggie14]

It is possible to get weird hardware problems. A little more than a year ago Sage put some sort of networking tweak in the HD100 firmware that killed playback of mkv files. Pretty much everything else worked, just not mkv files. It was the strangest thing. I even tried taking working mp4 videos and putting them in an mkv container and those wouldn't work either. I could go back to the earlier firmwares that didn't have the networking optimizations, and mkv's would work there, but then I had other problems that were fixed in the later firmwares.

I went back and forth with Sage for weeks, and generated countless log files. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling Sage and various decoders, drivers, etc. Nothing worked. Long story short, I fixed the problem by getting a completely new Sage server. I never tried just reformatting the hard drive and starting fresh, so that might have fixed it too. Still, the moral of the story is that firmware updates can bring out hidden problems with your server. I know the HD-200 has new network optimizations in the later firmware. It's possible that's the source of the problem, in conjunction with issues on your server.

Getting logs from Sage is sort of an involved process. The SageTV FAQ tells you how to enable logging on the server. And the Extender FAQ says how to enable logging on the extender (that's the one that is a pain). The logs will get big really fast. You'll want to shut Sage down, turn on logging in the properties file, turn on your HD200 and get logging going on that, start up SageTV server, and then quickly duplicate the issue and shut everything down. That will keep logs moderately small.

There are some extra settings that basically log more stuff than the default. I don't remember what they are off the top of my head. If Sage needs them they'll tell you what things to put in your properties file.

[markettwain]

Eureka! I figured it out. The new beta firmwares were not playing nicely with my Netgear GS116 Gigabit Switch.

I eliminated the switch by plugging the SageTV server and the HD-200 directly into my Linksys WRT54GS Router, and all is well.

Thanks for all the suggestions. One more question... What's the best router or switch to use with SageTV? I'm going to need some more ports soon now that I love my HD-200's again and I want to buy more.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by markettwain

Eureka! I figured it out. The new beta firmwares were not playing nicely with my Netgear GS116 Gigabit Switch.

I eliminated the switch by plugging the SageTV server and the HD-200 directly into my Linksys WRT54GS Router, and all is well.

Thanks for all the suggestions. One more question... What's the best router or switch to use with SageTV? I'm going to need some more ports soon now that I love my HD-200's again and I want to buy more.

I can't believe the Linksys WRT54GS router was superior to any external switch. That's a rare case!

I would highly, HIGHLY recommend you don't skimp on your next gigabit switch nor Sage server NIC. Here are my minimum recommendations:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833316076

And one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...25%20-%20%2450

Your standard Dlink/Netgear/Linksys gigabit switches are going to give you problems. Their 10/100 offerings are fine, but they fail miserably at reliable gigabit.

[markettwain]

Thanks, valnar. I've already got the Intel 1000 GT Desktop adapters on both my SageTV server and my SageTV network share. I learned the pitfalls of a cheap NIC in another headache a couple of years ago.

I wouldn't classify my switch as "skimp[y]" (I paid over $200 for it. LOL!), but the fact is, it doesn't work with the last three HD-200 beta firmwares. I bought it when I was trying to eliminate skimpy gear the last time I upgraded my NICs, but if it doesnt work, it doesn't work. My loyalties blow with the breeze with these sorts of things.

I will be getting a new gigabit switch since I transfer so many large files (I have 10 TB of videos in my Sage setup at the moment) that I don't want to lose the speed boost that the gigabit connection gives me. I'll definitely consider the HP switch you recommended. I'm going to do a bit more reading first though...

I've only noticed one problem with my setup since today's breakthrough... my PAL DVDs don't play exactly right through the HD-200. They do play, but it's jittery and unwatchable. I swear there was a recent beta firmware where all of my PAL DVDs played correctly, so I'm thinking good playback is in the cards... just not today anyway. In the meantime, I'll start a new thread and a new bug report.

One day all of my 10 TB of video files will play correctly everywhere, every time. But then, what will I do? LOL!

One last thought... I asked SageTV what was the best router or switch I could use with SageTV, and they suggested that whatever one "works" is all I need--there is no "best one." They also suggested I "see" what other SageTV users are using with success. This position makes sense to me, although I must admit, I just wish they'd say, "Buy XYZ."

[valnar]

Well, I can guarantee you the HP switch is the best in that price range. Their 1800G switch is nicer if you want some basic web management like vlans, but the core ASIC's in the 1400 is just as good. HP develops their own.

Some of the other big players are Broadcom, Marvell and Vitesse. I have a lot of experience with Broadcom, and I'm never impressed. I'd had experience with Marvell NIC's (on motherboards) and they are a step up from Realtek and Broadcom, but not as good as Intel, so I imagine their switch PHY chips may be decent. Dunno for sure.

Here is a mini-review of some of the common SOHO players.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30195/51/

While I can't vouch for Vitesse based switches, at least it's an alternative to Broadcom. If you weren't interested in the HP (but it really is the best ), I might try the D-Link. It seems to get pretty good reviews on NewEgg and Amazon compared to others.

BTW, I have heard of "disconnect" issues with the Netgear gigabit switches before. Their FS105 and FS108 10/100 switches are good, but you weren't the first person I've seen complain about their gigabit offerings.

[joelinkup]

Comment for "Markettwain" & ALL... I have the Netgear GS116 Gigabit Switch in the basement... There are about 12 ports in use at this time... Four HD200's... Router... Server... Security Cameras... etc... The GS116 is about 8 months old... I have NO ISSUES with the GS116... Works 100%... I thought this might be helpful because MAYBE your GS116 is broken... It has a lifetime warranty and perhaps you could get it fixed for FREE... I am just offering this as some hope for betterment witout having to spend any more money... I should add that I am using the very latest HD200 Beta Firmware version... and the very latest SageTV software version...

[markettwain]

Originally Posted by joelinkup

Comment for "Markettwain" & ALL... I have the Netgear GS116 Gigabit Switch in the basement... There are about 12 ports in use at this time... Four HD200's... Router... Server... Security Cameras... etc... The GS116 is about 8 months old... I have NO ISSUES with the GS116... Works 100%... I thought this might be helpful because MAYBE your GS116 is broken... It has a lifetime warranty and perhaps you could get it fixed for FREE... I am just offering this as some hope for betterment witout having to spend any more money...

I have mine in the attic which gets really, really hot in the summer (I'm in New Orleans).

You got me thinking, though... maybe there's a firmware update for the switch that might help.

I will contact Netgear and see what they say about replacing it or fixing it if there's no firmware update. Good idea, thanks.

[joelinkup]

Markettwain...
I hope you saw the part about me using the very latest HD200 firmware version... and the very latest SageTV software version... Like I said NO ISSUES with the GS116 in the BASEMENT... The GS116 has no fan (nice and quiet)... As for the attic... I would assume you could cook a steak on a piece of hot metal in the attic... The GS116 case is all metal and it also has the heat from the electronics... I SUSPECT the heat may be an issue... When you talk to Netgear I would remain MUTE about it being in the attic heat as that MAY affect FREE warranty repairs..... I was also thinking that a fan might help but blowing around hot attic air will not solve the problem either...

[sic0048]

Yeah, I definitely think heat had some roll in your problems. I wouldn't put the new switch back in the attic either. I think you'll end up ruining that switch over time as well.

[freedml]

I'm about ready to get out my thumbdrive and go back a couple of Beta versions...

[markettwain]

Originally Posted by joelinkup

Markettwain...
I hope you saw the part about me using the very latest HD200 firmware version... and the very latest SageTV software version...

I am using the latest SageTV 6.5.16 beta on my server and firmware 20090602 beta on my HD200.

The switch works fine with firmware 20081230 or even 20090505. It's just the last three firmwares where the problem started happening.

This leads me to believe the problem in with the firmware and not the switch. But I might have that wrong...

[mr_lore]

On the subject of switches I have never had issue with my 24 port netgear JGS524 10/100/1000Mbps, its the backbone of my whole house, not just sage duties:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122058


And I do admit I dont seek out NIC's I just use whatever is onboard...

[lotusvball]

For those of you having issues with switches and the beta firmwares. I had an issue once with my netgear switch. After some failed attempts at troubleshooting the problem. I simply rebooted the switch and everything was fine. This is just what fixed my issue.

[cat6man]

i use a netgear GS-724AT switch as the backbone of the house, with small/cheap GS-605's scattered around the house on different floors as cross-connects.............no problems at all streaming and recording video and audio

used to have serious problems with dlink stuff though..........would stream video ok for 20-70 minutes then freeze my network media player............eventually tracked to dlink and could reproduce frozen video streaming by pulling ethernet cable and re-inserting........replaced with small netgear stuff and problems disappeared (pull cable, re-insert and video resumed with gap but no lockup).....what was happening? who knows..............but netgear solved it for me

(of course, your mileage may vary)