Help design a SageTV server network

[Stuhoo]

Advice requested:

I am interested in building a SageTV server network, but am new to networking. I built a Vista "HTPC" 2 years ago, but given the lack of PVR support for HDTV at the time, I have been using it primarily as a music server and to play games on my plasma TV. But I now have 3 HDTV's and I am frustrated with the clutter of 3 different Time Warner set top HDDVR's (all are SA 8300HD units). I want to consolidate my TV, movie, and music experience -- which brings me to SageTV. I also envision this new server backing up the files from my main office computer. Anticipating this project, I placed cat 5e cabling through most of the lower 2 levels of my house when we finished the basement last winter.

Before I spend my time and money on this new project, I was hoping to get specific suggestions and critiques from the expertise available in this forum. Of note, my current HTPC is a C2Duo 6300 with 2GB RAM and a GeForce 8800GTS graphics card.

Options:

-Convert my current HTPC to be a SageTV Server. It currently runs Vista with MC, but I would probably want to change the OS to WHS or Server 2008 R2 (when available). I would have to add HDD storage (in a RAID 5 array, I guess). I would need to buy the Hauppage HD-PVR to capture the component output from the Time-Warner set-top box and buy HD200 Sage extenders for the other 2 TV's. This would be cheaper and more energy efficient than the alternative below. Unfortunately, I would probably lose the HTPC functionality as a gaming rig in this set-up.

-Build a new Media Server to be placed in a closet. In this set-up, the current HTPC could serve as a Sage client, with HD200 extender boxes for the other 2 TV's. I might have trouble running TW coax cable line to the server closet, although ethernet connections are available. Can the Hauppage HD-PVR be connected to the SageTV server through the network (i.e. can they be in different rooms)? I assume that I could rip blu-ray discs onto the HTPC, easily transfer the movie files through the network to the server, then play them off of the server through Sage on any of the 3 TV's?

What do you think? What am I missing? Are there any other suggestions? Would a server running Windows 7 MC work as well? Consider cost vs. functionality. Simple daily usability is necessary for the WAF.

Many thanks in advance.

-Stuart

[paulbeers]

Couple things right off the bat:

WHS and Windows Server 2008 can not be used to do video playback. They are are server OS's and therefore were not built with media playback so your first route really won't work unless you stick to XP/Vista/7 as the OS (but then you lose the backup features of WHS). Most of us have found that a true server/client setup saves us a lot of hassles. I myself have gone to all extenders (MVP's, HD100's, and HD200's) for video playback. They all just plain work and all I have to do is update my server when a new version comes out and the others are automatically updated (not the firmwares mind you, they still need to be updated manually). The best way would be a gigabit network (solely so your server's network I/O has plenty of bandwidth) with your current HTPC sitting in a closet (or in my case in my basement) and all client TV's using HD200's. If that isn't possible, then I would go with simply with your first option and not use WHS and Server 2008 (maybe set those up on a low power pc somewhere else in the house?).

[bcjenkins]

I would check compatibility of Windows 2008 and HDPVR.

[mayamaniac]

Option 2 is better. Go with the closet WHS route and run the coax into there. There are ethernet-to-usb solutions out there, but I think you are just inviting more hassles for the HD-PVR. Probably run one coax in there and use a signal amplifier to split it up if you have more than one cable boxes. Use the current rig for the server and build a new machine for your gaming rig. You can choose to use SageTV Client on the new machine for your main TV, or HD200 for all 3 TVs to simplify it.

[PiX64]

To try and answer some of your questions:

- I do not believe the HDPVR can be networked. There is pretty extensive forum support for the HDPVR, so i would suggest doing a search of the forums for a thread on it

- If you are going to setup a RAID, i personally would setup a RAID 5 array as you suggested for 2 main reasons: 1) Speed 2) heterogenous disk support. I would also suggest looking into hardware raid if you can afford to do it right now. You can pick up a perc 5/i card on ebay for around a hundred bucks.

- If you rip a bluray or DVD (to where ever,doesn't have to be the server) and have that particular location setup in sage server as a library import directory, you will be able to watch your DVD's and blu rays in there 1080p glory on any client pc or extender (hd200) on your network.. as well as placeshifter, but it gets downconverted for the placeshifter of course. Example: I have everything DVD/Music/etc. on my NAS and the shared location setup in Sage as an import location. Sage catalogs it in the DB, but content is actually streamed from the NAS

- If you went the first route without WHS, you would not lose the "gaming rig functionality" of your HTPC. you can run Sage in service mode and let it sit and do its thing. you can continue to play your games or what have you on your HTPC. Depending on system speed etc will of course determine things such as how many concurrent recordings and connections you can have to the server while playing games.

Other things to consider
-------------------------------
1) when running extenders like the hd200, they require more system memory on the server side. if your running 2 or 3 hd200's, recording 4 shows for example and trying to play a game on you rHTPC/Sage Server while comskip is running you may quickly hit a system hardware limitation. Depending on what you decide to do, it may be worth it to upgrade your system memory.

2) HDHOMERUN is a GREAT GREAT GREAT network encoder for OTA content, as well as QAM digital HD/SD content from your current cable subscriber. Depending on what your viewing needs are, you may be able to drop your HDTV boxes...For me at least, my wife and i really only watch the HD channels provided by my cable company in the clear (QAM) I was able to save about 40 a month dropping their DVR/HDTV server and just going with standard cable and an HDHOMERUN for QAM content...just somethign to think about.

3) I would do some more research on the HDPVR. As mentioned before there is extensive support on this forum for this product, but you should def do some research so you konw what your getting into. I had one and just got tired of jerkin around with it all the time...

4) Other tuners i have heard are good are the HVR2250....i personally us an HVR1600, and a ATI external USB SD/HD capture device, and then of course the HDHOMERUN which has 2 tuners in it.

5) Save some money and buy the Sage SERVER license as a bundle with either our tv tuner card, or better yet when you buy 1 of your several HD200's

Lastly i would sit back and really thinkg about what your needs are
1) What will the server do
2) How many concurrent recording/livestreams do i really need
3) What kind of AWESOME sage addons do i want to run (comskip, Sage Movie Wall, Batch Metadata Tools, etc.)
4) whats my budget


Hope that helps a little...

~Mike

[sic0048]

Unless you have experience running Server 2008, I would skip it and run either the Vista OS you currently have or WHS if you want it to backup your other computers. But it doesn't really sound like you have a lot of other computers, so the Vista OS will be fine IMHO.

Windows Server 2008 was not designed to run tuners and other video hardware. You can get it to work, but it requires hacks and other non-standard fixes. It will NOT be plug and play - that is for sure. You don't really need that headache.

This coming from someone that is using Server 2008 in my home setup - so take the advice from someone that has been there already! I actually run my Sage Server on a XP Pro machine.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Stuhoo

-Build a new Media Server to be placed in a closet. In this set-up, the current HTPC could serve as a Sage client, with HD200 extender boxes for the other 2 TV's. I might have trouble running TW coax cable line to the server closet, although ethernet connections are available.

That's where I went - from an XP box that I also used for work. Except that I don't find much use for the SageTV client. I have it, just never use it any more. Instead, I use PlaceShifter on PCs that I want to watch TV on.

Now it's all in the rec room closet - no keyboard, no monitor - and when I need to access the WHS box I do it via RemoteDesktop. That closet has the house's soil stack running through it and that's a convenient pathway for pulling cable.

I'd never go back and I haven't yet heard of another way that sounds better.

The HD200's are totally silent, take little electricity, are small/unobtrusive, and just plain work...

My only regrets are that, before going over to the WHS server/HD200's, I pulled a certain amount of coax that I didn't need to pull in light of the HD200's and that I only pulled one Ethernet cable to each destination.

If I were doing it again, I wouldn't pull as much coax and I would pull three (3) Ethernet cables to each point that I currently have one at.

I would not terminate the two extras until a need arose, but the incremental cost is so low and the labor savings so great once the need for additional Ethernet outlets arises that pulling them at the same time seems like a no-brainer.

[najames]

Warning - hijack coming with similar questions.

I am a SageTV noob in similar shape as the OP. I did some brief "proof of concept" last January. Each location only had a single cable so later I bought 3 spools of Cat6 and pulled 3 runs to five locations, didn't terminate it then. I got too busy and had to halt work. My wife left for an extended vacation to see her family, so I am again working nightly/weekends.

After a LOT of lurking research over time, I just purchased SageTV, 3 HD200 extenders. I have been terminating the Cat6, hung 48" shelving above my laundry room door for HDHomerun/router/switch/VOIP/etc AC blows down on it nicely. I have at least one Cat6 to each room teminated. I still need to test wiring with a couple PCs, then I'll connect up equipment and home run wire I pulled to my DSL box, finish terminating.

I am thinking of splitting the ethernet internet and video with my 24 port HP Procurve GB switch. Assuming I can do it, is this a good idea or waste of time?

I also have one SA8300HD, its full now. I'd like to empty the drive and am thinking of returning it for a "free" box since my Comcast quality is very poor, can't get working HD, but I'm forced to pay for it through the HOA. I would like to move this STB to a central location. Do you use a Xantech IR setup to control the STB from each TV? Other Options? This is the one gray area I'm worried about. Headphone type jack on wall to emitter, blaster to hardware? For the main TV, I have an Hamony One to control it, not set up yet. I currently have an old Pioneer Elite 5.1 reciever, not set up yet, willing to get something new with HDMI if needed. Suggestions?

I got a PC working last night to capture the video on the STB with an old Hauppauge PVR-150 card. For some reason this was easy last time, but it took me a couple nights this time. I could "preview", but not record until I named the scenario. I pulled off a 2hr movie first to clear some space for wifey's Fri/Sat recordings, put the movie on a flash drive, tested picture/sound on another PC with speakers, worked good. Then I unboxed my first HD200, connected it with an HDMI cable to the TV. Once I changed settings on the picture size, the USB flash drive video played good off the HD200 in zoom mode on my 50" 720p Panny Plasma.

The main TV is 1366x768 native. I am not sure which size format to record in. I used 720x480 for the first attempt and it scaled ok with zoom mode? Suggestions? What if I play videos on another 42" Panny Plasma 1024x768 native?

Do you record with sound on max, leave the TV near max, control volume with the HD200? This will need to be addressed when I add in the receiver too.

I installed WHS on my Q6600 server AHCI settings/drivers, haven't did 64K clusters or installed SageTV yet. How does this install with the MSI file? Do you download the MSI file, copy it to the server, and it installs from there using the remote desktop? I have only had time to briefly use Linux client to look at the WHS remote connection desktop, haven't really used it yet.

I do some extensive computer work by trade, but this A/V stuff is a little different animal. It is making me feel asking all these questions.