Upgrade to Windows 7?

[bsung]

I did see a thread about which Windows 7 was the best choice, but do people have comments about upgrading to Windows 7 in general? SageTV is the only thing that my wife needs from that machine so that's the application I'm most concerned about. I have a recently installed Vista Ultimate setup and things seem to be working fine but I have this coupon to upgrade. Before I do much more tinkering, I'm weighing the benefits of Windows 7 vs the possibility of not have Sage for a period of time. I have 2 HD PVRs with FIOS, USB-UIRT and 2 HD200's (1 wireless and 1 wired). Should I expect to just upgrade Windows 7 right on top of what I currently have and still have Sage work properly afterwards?

[SWKerr]

I hate Vista myself and would upgrade for just the UI but if you are happy with it and Sage is working than you should probably not upgrade. It will not solve word hunger or make you smarter it is just better in a lot of small ways.

I believe you need to do something with the coupon in order to get the media. I would go ahead and do whatever it takes to get the install media now. You will not have to upgrade until you are ready.

If you decide to upgrade: I would never count on an upgrade going smoothly. Supposedly you can upgrade in place a Vista instance but that does not mean you will not have driver issues. I always do a clean install, meaning format the drive and reinstall all applications.

If you have an extra hard drive you can change the boot order of the hard disk and install to it. That way you can go back and forth until you are sure. Make sure to disconnect the Vista boot drive before you do the initial Windws7 install. It is real easy to install to the wrong drive and if it is not available you can't destroy it.

[Clift]

Originally Posted by bsung

I did see a thread about which Windows 7 was the best choice, but do people have comments about upgrading to Windows 7 in general? SageTV is the only thing that my wife needs from that machine so that's the application I'm most concerned about. I have a recently installed Vista Ultimate setup and things seem to be working fine but I have this coupon to upgrade. Before I do much more tinkering, I'm weighing the benefits of Windows 7 vs the possibility of not have Sage for a period of time. I have 2 HD PVRs with FIOS, USB-UIRT and 2 HD200's (1 wireless and 1 wired). Should I expect to just upgrade Windows 7 right on top of what I currently have and still have Sage work properly afterwards?

Do you use this machine as playback or just as a server? You may want to look into the native recording patch and decide if the codec issues would bother you or not; especially if you use the ArcSoft Video Decoder. But as the previous poster commented: I would do whatever I needed to get the upgrade, especially if you're just going to get a disc. Cause there is no real need to upgrade to Windows 7 if Vista gets the job done.

[bsung]

Originally Posted by Clift

Do you use this machine as playback or just as a server? You may want to look into the native recording patch and decide if the codec issues would bother you or not; especially if you use the ArcSoft Video Decoder. But as the previous poster commented: I would do whatever I needed to get the upgrade, especially if you're just going to get a disc. Cause there is no real need to upgrade to Windows 7 if Vista gets the job done.

I only use it as a server for now, although I would like to have the ability to playback from it. For now, I haven't messed around with the codecs and so it doesn't play hdpvr files.

I appreciate the suggestion about installing to a different hd first and having the current setup as a backup and plan to do that. In theory though, because Sage keeps it's properties in a file that I can copy, it should be smoother than a program that writes to the registry, right?

[davephan]

Before upgrading your computer from Vista to Windows 7, take a disk image of the C drive (boot drive and programs). Store the image on a USB hard drive. Make the upgrade, then take another image of the upgraded system and store it on a USB hard drive.

If the upgrade fails, you can image back to the old Vista system. If the upgrade needs more work, but people want to use SageTV, you can recover to the Vista image.

During the next maintenance period, take another image of the Vista system, then recover to the Windows 7 image.

If you keep taking more images as you work on the upgrade, you can switch back and forth between the two operating systems. It may take about an hour or a bit longer to switch between them taking images and recovering. However, you can always go back to a known working state during the upgrade process.

It would be easier to build the Windows 7 system with new hardware, but more expensive.

If you don't own imaging software, you could use PING, Partition Image is Not Ghost, which is free.

Dave

[reggie14]

I don't think there are any big reasons to run to Windows 7 from Vista. Vista got a bad reputation, but much of it was undeserved. I just upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 on my workstation just because I was curious why everyone was praising Windows 7 so much compared to Vista. It seems to boot a little faster, other than that it doesn't seem any faster or more response than when I was running Vista. I think everyone that says it's so much faster either 1) is fooling themselves, or 2) did a clean install of Win7 on an older Vista system with lots of background tasks going. All the benchmarks I've seen suggest Windows 7 is pretty much the same speed as Vista, except when there are compatibility bugs (in which case Vista is much faster).

The UI of Windows 7 is a little different. But, the only really noticeable change is in the taskbar. The taskbar in Vista is pretty much the same taskbar as Windows XP, but its more like the OS X dock in Windows 7 (that's a bit of an oversimplification though). The rest of the Win7 interface is pretty much the same as the Vista interface.

I've had some lock-ups on my Windows 7 system since doing the upgrade. Hard lockups too. The only reliability problem I had in Vista was that my ATI driver would occasionally stop responding when I was running dual monitors. Usually the screen flickered, but it would recover on its own. I haven't had that problem in Windows 7, but the crashes I have had in Windows 7 have been worse. They lock up the machine and force a hard reset. The crashes seem to be video card related though. Google Earth kept crashing the system when it was running in OpenGL mode. It seems to get along better with Win7 with DirectX.

I'm not sure what I think of the Windows 7 decoders. I stopped using the mpeg2 decoder in favor of the PowerDVD decoder. The MS decoder doesn't seem to handle interlaced video very well. That also seems to be the case with the H.264 decoder. It works pretty well with 720p HD-PVR recordings, but not 480i ones. I'll probably load the ArcSoft decoder this weekend and see if it is any better.

I agree with the others on this thread that said to do an image backup. I had to do a clean install, since I was going from Vista Ultimate to Windows 7 Professional. I didn't image my Vista box because I backed all my data up and figured I could just to a Vista install again if things went horribly bad. But, the first thing I did after installing Windows 7, Office and a few other key applications was to image my new Windows 7 install.

There is a Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor utility that should do a decent job telling you if you can upgrade in place. Several reviews I've read have suggested the upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 works pretty well. And that makes sense. Under the hood, it really looks like Windows 7 is pretty much just Vista. The changes from XP to Vista were more extensive, as they forced developers to move away from bad habits (applications only working with admin access, or writing files to the application directory, instead of user directories, etc.).

[Polypro]

Does Sage respect decoder selection in Windows 7? I installed the nVIDIA decoder and set it as default with DirectShow Filter Manager...but Graph Edit still uses the the MS DTV-DVD decoder. I know when you select it in Sage, it won't show the tray icon anyway. How do you KNOW what decoder Sage is actually using? (AC3 Filter gets used when set to Default though). I still have the decoders from PDVD8 and Arcsoft2 (upgraded to TMT 3 for $41, check retailmenot for a code)...maybe I'll register them. Also, in DSFM, the MS decoders are grayed out as unknown...but Graph Edit is using them???

P

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Polypro

Does Sage respect decoder selection in Windows 7? I installed the nVIDIA decoder and set it as default with DirectShow Filter Manager...but Graph Edit still uses the the MS DTV-DVD decoder. I know when you select it in Sage, it won't show the tray icon anyway. How do you KNOW what decoder Sage is actually using?

I don't know how well Sage respects decoder selection. I would think whatever shows up in GraphEdit is what will be used in Sage.

The only way I know to reliably tell which decoder is being used is to enable logging, play back a file, and inspect the log. The log will say which video and audio decoders are used. But, it's sort of a pain to do, since there are lots of lines to dig through in the log file.

[Polypro]

I think if you specifically select it, it works. I was able to register the TMT3 and PDVD8 Video Codecs. Selecting TMT for DVD worked, because I got no "highlights" over the selection (TNT doesn't support the mouse). When I changed to PDVD8, the menu highlights re-appeared.

P

[Pumpkinhead]

I haven't heard any good reason to upgrade to Windows 7... for me that is. We have it on a system at work, and I have not been impressed. I use XP with classic start menu, customize it how I want it, and it's rock solid and compatible with everything I want without all the annoyances.

[Brent]

I'm curious about others thoughts on this as well. Here's my take:

If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running XP I don't really see a reason to upgrade to Windows 7. Is there any reason to?


If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running Vista and you're having issues with it or it seems slow or you use that machine for additional tasks other than SageTV you might want to upgrade to Windows 7. Not everyone would want to, but it makes more sense in this case.

For HTPCs that are playback machines I think there are probably a few reasons to upgrade XP or Vista to Windows 7. What do you guys think those reasons are?

[Clift]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm curious about others thoughts on this as well. Here's my take:

If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running XP I don't really see a reason to upgrade to Windows 7. Is there any reason to?


If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running Vista and you're having issues with it or it seems slow or you use that machine for additional tasks other than SageTV you might want to upgrade to Windows 7. Not everyone would want to, but it makes more sense in this case.

For HTPCs that are playback machines I think there are probably a few reasons to upgrade XP or Vista to Windows 7. What do you guys think those reasons are?

Always Vista from XP for HD playback because I have found that I could never get VMR9 to work within SageTV, especially with HD PVr content. So in that regard Vista's support of EVR is a major plus over XP. As far as Windows 7, I would wait until the whole decoder thing gets under control. Seems like the native recording patch and all the decoder issues may not be worth it to upgrade to Windows 7 for now.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm curious about others thoughts on this as well. Here's my take:

If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running XP I don't really see a reason to upgrade to Windows 7. Is there any reason to?


If you have a SageTV server (not playback machine) running Vista and you're having issues with it or it seems slow or you use that machine for additional tasks other than SageTV you might want to upgrade to Windows 7. Not everyone would want to, but it makes more sense in this case.

For HTPCs that are playback machines I think there are probably a few reasons to upgrade XP or Vista to Windows 7. What do you guys think those reasons are?

I agree,
My SageTV Server is windows XP SP3 and once in a while I will do the auto-updates etc.. especially during time changes other than that I forget the server is even there. It just performs I do not need any bloatware on a Sage Server.

[SWKerr]

I have been running WHS with the Sage Client on Windows7 64 RC for quite awhile with no problems. (4 different machines, mostly ATI\AMD) It was much easier to setup than XP and has been quite stable. After about a year of trying I had actually got Vista 32 to run as a Client with Sage with good results but there were too many annoyances on Vista 64 for my tastes.

I played with the native Windows7 codecs on my test box but the Arcsoft codecs work so well with Window7 that I am not sure what the draw would be if you have an HD-PVR and TME.

Window7 64 as a client is the way I would go unless I had a flawless setup. Have not done much testing with Sage as a server on Win7 but I would expect it to be good if you could find the correct drivers.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Clift

As far as Windows 7, I would wait until the whole decoder thing gets under control. Seems like the native recording patch and all the decoder issues may not be worth it to upgrade to Windows 7 for now.

Lazy question: Would the decoder issue cause problems using W7 as a server?

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by Brent

Lazy question: Would the decoder issue cause problems using W7 as a server?

Not unless you wanted to play something back.

I would go with WHS over Win7 if I wanted a headless server but if I wanted my Sage server to also be my desktop I would go with Win7 because of the better GUI compared to XP and Vista.

[bsung]

Thanks for everyone's input. I didn't know about the free ghosting software which could be useful.

Originally Posted by SWKerr

Window7 64 as a client is the way I would go unless I had a flawless setup. Have not done much testing with Sage as a server on Win7 but I would expect it to be good if you could find the correct drivers.

Unfortuantely my machine is as a server. Are there Windows 7 drivers for the HDPVR? I haven't seen it. Most of the time the HDPVR works fine but as we all know, it occassionally does lock up. I was partly hoping that if Hauppauge had a new driver written for Win7, maybe that would help. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

[gplasky]

Windows 7 has imaging built-in. Go to Control Panel-System Security-Backup and Restore. On the left hand side you have "Create a System Image". It's the same image format used by Microsoft for creating the Windows 7 install disc.


Gerry

[davephan]

Built-in imaging is a great feature for Windows 7. Although you would need to test the restores to make sure the recoveries are successful. Years ago, it tried using the Microsoft backup program several times, and the recoveries failed. If the recoveries are reliable, then you wouldn't need third party imaging software. Too bad WHS does not have the same feature.

Dave

[mistergq]

probably in the next year, I will upgrade to Windows 7 for cable card support. I will probably wait until SP1 comes out before I do the upgrade though.

however, if I decide not to go windows 7, then I will stick with XP.