Questions about going from WHS to Win 7 for SageTV server

[crarbo1]

Hello,
I have some questions as I have decided to go from using SageTV on my WHS to having a dedicated server using Win 7. I like having one machine do it all but if I need to do something to it, then the WAF is bad since SageTV is down as well. Anyway, I did a quick search and didn't find what I was looking for and I apologize it this has been covered before.

Here are my questions:
Is it best to have more than one SageTV recording drive for Win 7 servers?

I plan on leaving my ripped DVD's on my WHS. Do I still need to format the WHS pool drives to 64k clusters?

Is it necessary to defrag the SageTV recording drive or drives?

Can I migrate my settings from my WHS SageTV server to my Win 7 SageTV server? If so, how?

That is all that I can think of for now.

Thanks,
Chuck

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Can I migrate my settings from my WHS SageTV server to my Win 7 SageTV server? If so, how?

Well, the quick answer for migrating setting is to move your C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\Wiz.bin file over to the new server. This won't set up your tuners + channel lineups, plug-ins, or other configurations, but it holds all the important stuff like favorites and watched shows. What plug-ins/customizations do you have installed?

One problem is that it sounds like you want to move the current recorded TV files off of WHS to the Win7 machine. Do you have a lot of recorded TV files that you want to move, (not DVD rips, photos, music--just recorded TV)? What is your recording directory set to currently on WHS? Is it a UNC path like \\SERVERNAME\Recorded TV (where SERVERNAME is the WHS name and NOT localhost or 127.0.0.1), or do you use a "local" directory like D:\shares\Recorded TV? If you use a UNC path, then I would personally just leave the existing recorded TV files on WHS and let new ones be stored on the Win7 box. Otherwise, you have to change the file path. I've never done this, but the SageTV FAQ sticky in this forum has the process for changing the file paths for recorded TV.

[davephan]

The first thing to think about is how you are going to recover before the next disaster. Something other than WHS is a good move since you cannot recover quickly with WHS. You should think about using imaging software like Acronis. If you want to be able to recover to different hardware, then you need Aronis Workstation with Universal Recovery, not the lower priced Acronis Home version.

If you use disk imaging, then you don't need to have the operating system on RAID, although you could for extra protection. I don't have my operating system drive on RAID, it is only protected by disk imaging.

Do you want to protect your videos? You could use RAID on your Windows 7 computer and/or use the WHS server to protect the video files, or some of the video files, like the DVD rips.

The recovery time for your operating system drive is about 30 minutes if you recover with disk imaging. The important thing for your operating system (and programs) drive is having the ability to quickly go back in the past, when the system was working perfectly.

Here's a link for Acronis Workstation 10 with Universal Recovery option:
http://www.acronis.com/backup-recovery/workstation/

Here's a link for Acronis Home 2010:
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing...cts/trueimage/

If you decide to buy, search for a discount code for the product. The discount is only 5% for the Workstation product, and higher discounts for the home version. Get the code only, don't buy from the sites that lists the code, unless you trust those sites. I got the code from a site I found on a Google search and bought directly from the Acronis web site with the discount code.

Dave

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

Well, the quick answer for migrating setting is to move your C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\Wiz.bin file over to the new server. This won't set up your tuners + channel lineups, plug-ins, or other configurations, but it holds all the important stuff like favorites and watched shows. What plug-ins/customizations do you have installed?

One problem is that it sounds like you want to move the current recorded TV files off of WHS to the Win7 machine. Do you have a lot of recorded TV files that you want to move, (not DVD rips, photos, music--just recorded TV)? What is your recording directory set to currently on WHS? Is it a UNC path like \\SERVERNAME\Recorded TV (where SERVERNAME is the WHS name and NOT localhost or 127.0.0.1), or do you use a "local" directory like D:\shares\Recorded TV? If you use a UNC path, then I would personally just leave the existing recorded TV files on WHS and let new ones be stored on the Win7 box. Otherwise, you have to change the file path. I've never done this, but the SageTV FAQ sticky in this forum has the process for changing the file paths for recorded TV.

KarylFStein,
Thanks for the input. I figured the wiz.bin would be the item that I would need to move, just wasn't sure. I only have SageMC loaded I know that will have to be installed again. I was just wondering if I had to setup the tuners again or not. Seems like I will. I won't have to many, if any, TV recordings left when I switch, so that should be a problem. I do have UNC paths though.

Thanks,
Chuck

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by davephan

The first thing to think about is how you are going to recover before the next disaster. Something other than WHS is a good move since you cannot recover quickly with WHS. You should think about using imaging software like Acronis. If you want to be able to recover to different hardware, then you need Aronis Workstation with Universal Recovery, not the lower priced Acronis Home version.

If you use disk imaging, then you don't need to have the operating system on RAID, although you could for extra protection. I don't have my operating system drive on RAID, it is only protected by disk imaging.

Do you want to protect your videos? You could use RAID on your Windows 7 computer and/or use the WHS server to protect the video files, or some of the video files, like the DVD rips.

The recovery time for your operating system drive is about 30 minutes if you recover with disk imaging. The important thing for your operating system (and programs) drive is having the ability to quickly go back in the past, when the system was working perfectly.

Here's a link for Acronis Workstation 10 with Universal Recovery option:
http://www.acronis.com/backup-recovery/workstation/

Here's a link for Acronis Home 2010:
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing...cts/trueimage/

If you decide to buy, search for a discount code for the product. The discount is only 5% for the Workstation product, and higher discounts for the home version. Get the code only, don't buy from the sites that lists the code, unless you trust those sites. I got the code from a site I found on a Google search and bought directly from the Acronis web site with the discount code.

Dave

Dave,
Thanks for adding that. I didn't really consider that yet. However, it seems that I can do that at any time. Currently, I back up all of my other computers via WHS and I guess I was going to do the same for the SageTV server. I have only had to recover a PC once or twice that I can remember and it didn't seem to be that long, but if there is an option out there that allows me to recover to different hardware, then I am interested. I just was going to leave my DVD's, Music and Photo's on the WHS with duplication on. I don't have any video's other than the DVD's. The TV recordings would be on the Win 7 PC, without any duplication as I can record them later if need be. Thanks for the links, I will check them out.

Thanks,
Chuck

[crarbo1]

Anyone have feedback for my first few questions?

Thanks,
Chuck

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Anyone have feedback for my first few questions?

Thanks,
Chuck

I can give you some feedback, but am pulling it out of my rear-end .

I don't see why multiple recording drives would help or hinder things. It sounds like you're concerned about availability for the WAF. In that case, I'd recommend a RAID-1 for the OS and the recording drive. This will also give you a performance boost on reads.

I've always used 64k clusters because it doesn't hurt anything on those drives holding large media files and space is fairly cheap anyway.

I've never defragged my drives. I haven't seen any stuttering in ages, so never felt the need. Others with heavier recording/viewing habits may disagree.

My take is to build the simplest system that meets your functionality needs and then address any specific performance problems if they crop up.

[davephan]

I do defrag all my drives with PerfectDisk 11 Pro. Defragging drives is supposed to help improve performance. We use Diskeeper at work, and it does make a difference there with performance. I don't know exactly how much it helps performance on my SageTV computer, but I think it is worth the small price of the software. I wouldn't bother using the built-in Microsoft defragmentation tool, since it inferior.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

I use Diskeeper as well, and it is really a great tool. the full time background defrag is really the best situation for sagetv. Without it, I definately notice system slowdowns and occasional playback stutters when the drives are near full.

As for multiple small drives, or one big one, cost would lean towards one big one, though multiple small ones would probably result in better overall performance. Either way, if you only have a couple tuners, and a couple playback devices, performance shouldn't be a problem no matter which way you go.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

I can give you some feedback, but am pulling it out of my rear-end .

I don't see why multiple recording drives would help or hinder things. It sounds like you're concerned about availability for the WAF. In that case, I'd recommend a RAID-1 for the OS and the recording drive. This will also give you a performance boost on reads.

I've always used 64k clusters because it doesn't hurt anything on those drives holding large media files and space is fairly cheap anyway.

I've never defragged my drives. I haven't seen any stuttering in ages, so never felt the need. Others with heavier recording/viewing habits may disagree.

My take is to build the simplest system that meets your functionality needs and then address any specific performance problems if they crop up.

KarylFStein,
Thanks for the info. I would rather not do any raid but if I have to, I could. The thought behind more than one recording drive is that I would have two of equal size. From my understanding, SageTV would record to both drives basically sharing the load. This would reduce the read/writes thus in theory giving the drives longer life. I could be way off base with that though. I wasn't sure if I would need 64k clusters for the DVD's on the WHS system. I would rather not go through the steps to make them 64k each time I add a drive to the WHS pool. Defragging the recording drive is what I was concerned with. Not sure if I want to do that or not.

Thanks,
Chuck

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by davephan

I do defrag all my drives with PerfectDisk 11 Pro. Defragging drives is supposed to help improve performance. We use Diskeeper at work, and it does make a difference there with performance. I don't know exactly how much it helps performance on my SageTV computer, but I think it is worth the small price of the software. I wouldn't bother using the built-in Microsoft defragmentation tool, since it inferior.

Dave

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I use Diskeeper as well, and it is really a great tool. the full time background defrag is really the best situation for sagetv. Without it, I definately notice system slowdowns and occasional playback stutters when the drives are near full.

As for multiple small drives, or one big one, cost would lean towards one big one, though multiple small ones would probably result in better overall performance. Either way, if you only have a couple tuners, and a couple playback devices, performance shouldn't be a problem no matter which way you go.

Dave and Fuzzy,
Do you defrag the recording drive? If you do, do you have it set to automatically defrag at all times of the day? Would that cause and issue if it was defragging when I was watching or recording TV?

I was wondering about multiple drives with the same size to basically share the load so SageTV wouldn't record to one drive too much basically decreasing the life of the drive.

What about 64k clusters for my DVD's that will be on the WHS drives? Is that necessary for them?

Thanks for all the input,
Chuck

[davephan]

It's true that you have to use the same size drives with RAID or if you use different size, you get the smaller size. For example, if you create a RAID 1 pair with the 1.5 TB and 2 TB drives, you get a 1.5 TB RAID 1 set.

However, if you ever have a problem with WHS, if the SageTV application, all other applications, and thousands of configurations are on WHS operating system, then it will take you a long time to recover. If you need to go back one week when the WHS was working perfectly, forget it, you have to rebuild WHS from scratch. There is no way to recover the WHS operating system without a manual scratch rebuild. To me, this is a show stopper type of problem making WHS an unacceptable option.

However, WHS does have some advantages where you can use different drive sizes. But keep in mind, at any time you can have a problem that will cause you long recovery times and a lot of hassle. I think of it as a 'time bomb' just waiting to blow up! Maybe it won't blow up, maybe it will, but you won't know until it happens to you. If you were to use XP or Windows 7, the recovery would take 30 minutes, most of that 30 minutes is unattended. Server operating systems like 2003 and 2008 can also be recovered with imaging, but you have to pay about $1000 for the imaging software, which is a good reason to stay with XP or Windows 7. If you're the only one using SageTV in your house, then maybe the extra risk of long recovery times are fine. However if you are concerned about keeping the WAF high, then you should think about how you will be recovering the system before the failure occurs to minimize the SageTV downtime.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Dave and Fuzzy,
Do you defrag the recording drive? If you do, do you have it set to automatically defrag at all times of the day? Would that cause and issue if it was defragging when I was watching or recording TV?

I was wondering about multiple drives with the same size to basically share the load so SageTV wouldn't record to one drive too much basically decreasing the life of the drive.

What about 64k clusters for my DVD's that will be on the WHS drives? Is that necessary for them?

Thanks for all the input,
Chuck

I can't speak for PerfectDisk, but with Diskeeper, it runs completely in the background. It does some tricks to prevent a lot of the fragmentation in the first place, and also monitors the system for idle time before doing any major moves. It is completely transparent, and you really do never notice it being there, but if you look at a Diskeeper managed drive over time compared to one that is not managed, there is a VERY significant improvement. well worth the small investment, especially if you're usually running with your sage drives full.

[jbrandon]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I can't speak for PerfectDisk, but with Diskeeper, it runs completely in the background. It does some tricks to prevent a lot of the fragmentation in the first place, and also monitors the system for idle time before doing any major moves. It is completely transparent, and you really do never notice it being there, but if you look at a Diskeeper managed drive over time compared to one that is not managed, there is a VERY significant improvement. well worth the small investment, especially if you're usually running with your sage drives full.

I can only assume you are talking about the $350+ software? Does the home version ($39.95) work the same way also… Not too clear on their web site but they do have a trial which I may download and give a try.

Jim

[Fuzzy]

I am referring to the home $39.95 version. there is a 30 day full-featured trial to give it a test run.

[Fuzzy]

The only feature the Pro version adds over the home edition is the "i-FAAST" algoritm, which basically monitors file access and rearranges them on the disk intelligently. Not really useful for a sage recording drive anyways.

They do also have a HomeServer edition, which features a WHS snap-in, if you are running on WHS.. however, it's $20 more than the basic home package.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by davephan

It's true that you have to use the same size drives with RAID or if you use different size, you get the smaller size. For example, if you create a RAID 1 pair with the 1.5 TB and 2 TB drives, you get a 1.5 TB RAID 1 set.

However, if you ever have a problem with WHS, if the SageTV application, all other applications, and thousands of configurations are on WHS operating system, then it will take you a long time to recover. If you need to go back one week when the WHS was working perfectly, forget it, you have to rebuild WHS from scratch. There is no way to recover the WHS operating system without a manual scratch rebuild. To me, this is a show stopper type of problem making WHS an unacceptable option.

However, WHS does have some advantages where you can use different drive sizes. But keep in mind, at any time you can have a problem that will cause you long recovery times and a lot of hassle. I think of it as a 'time bomb' just waiting to blow up! Maybe it won't blow up, maybe it will, but you won't know until it happens to you. If you were to use XP or Windows 7, the recovery would take 30 minutes, most of that 30 minutes is unattended. Server operating systems like 2003 and 2008 can also be recovered with imaging, but you have to pay about $1000 for the imaging software, which is a good reason to stay with XP or Windows 7. If you're the only one using SageTV in your house, then maybe the extra risk of long recovery times are fine. However if you are concerned about keeping the WAF high, then you should think about how you will be recovering the system before the failure occurs to minimize the SageTV downtime.

Dave

Dave,
I may be misunderstanding this post, but I am going away from using SageTV via WHS and to SageTV via Win 7. However, I only want to access the WHS for my ripped DVD's, Photo's and music. I was planning on using WHS to backup my SageTV server (Win 7) and thus a re-install if a problem happened should be minimal. Unless I had hardware failure and couldn't get the same hardware, then your original links may be a good way to go. One question on that software. Can you back up more than one PC with it or just the one it is installed on?

Thanks,
Chuck

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I can't speak for PerfectDisk, but with Diskeeper, it runs completely in the background. It does some tricks to prevent a lot of the fragmentation in the first place, and also monitors the system for idle time before doing any major moves. It is completely transparent, and you really do never notice it being there, but if you look at a Diskeeper managed drive over time compared to one that is not managed, there is a VERY significant improvement. well worth the small investment, especially if you're usually running with your sage drives full.

Fuzzy,
Thanks for the info. I have Diskeeper for my desktop PC but didn't know if it would effect SageTV at all if it was trying to defrag while TV was being recorded or watched.

Thanks,
Chuck

[davephan]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

One question on that software. Can you back up more than one PC with it or just the one it is installed on?

Thanks,
Chuck

That's a good move to go away from WHS for running the SageTV application. The imaging software just backs up the computer it's installed on. The most important part is to be able to go back in time, when the system was working perfectly. If you change things, and it screws up your SageTV server, its easy to fix.

Dave

[davephan]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The only feature the Pro version adds over the home edition is the "i-FAAST" algoritm, which basically monitors file access and rearranges them on the disk intelligently. Not really useful for a sage recording drive anyways.

They do also have a HomeServer edition, which features a WHS snap-in, if you are running on WHS.. however, it's $20 more than the basic home package.

The new Diskeeper 2010 for servers (which is being setup at my work) has a feature called intelliwrite. Intelliwrite is supposed to allow the computer to write the data in the correct place on the disk in the first place, to prevent fragmentation from happening, instead of letting the fragmentation occur, then fix it. The renewal price for servers it pretty cheap, I think it about $35 per server.

I don't know if the consumer version has intelliwrite, or if PerfectDisk has it. I'll have to check it out a bit more.

Dave