Is 4GB adequate for SageTv on Win7?

[mgpaulus]

I currently have Sage v7.1.5beta running on Win7-64 w/4GB of Ram, on a Quad Core AMD 940. I'm still in the process of fully fleshing the system out and am running into issues that are causing me to rethink some things....

Issue 1: Comcast is only giving me Pace RNG-110 STBs for my HD. I have 3 HD PVR to connect 3 RNG110s to. My issue is that to channel change, apparently the HD PVR won't talk to their respective STB via their IR-Blasters, which sucks. I would like to Firewire, but these RNG110 aren't recognized under Win7-64. Or I nee to get a USB-UIRT, which has the potential to be confusing in 2 years when I can't remember what's connected to what and why (My current mythtv system has been around for 5-6 years or more).

Issue 2: If I downgrade to Win7-32, then I am limited to 4GB effectively, but I get to use firewire hopefully. Hence my question. Will Sage be happy for the long term w/4GB? And will I be able to connect 3 STBs via firewire for channel changing, or will I run into issues there also?

[doncote0]

One USB-UIRT can controll 3 different devices.

The Hauppauge remote can control the RNG-110 (I am doing it) but I am not sure about multiple HD-PVR's.

RNG-110 is a great unit. The entire front panel is IR sensitive though. Make sure you use a cover or electrical type or some other means to prevent the signal from affecting more than one of the units.

Check the IRBlaster tool, if it only lets you configure one, but they are all the same, I do not know if it would work. I would probably set them all up with the IR's electrical typed to the RNG110's, configure the IR remote type, restart the computer and then setup the devices in Sage. After the setup, you should be able to check each unit by doing a channel preview.

I hope it works for you. I am currently running both the Hauppauge PVR remote and the USB-UIRT, but I could just run the USB-UIRT if I wanted to.

[Genxnurse]

Hello Mgpaulus,

I use a USBUIRT set to zones to control 4 Comcast boxes because a couple of them have different ir input codes. The USBUIRT is really a great device for this. Here is the setup instructions at this link http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...p?postid=48916

Here are a couple of problems I had when setting it up. One was not being able to tell when the blaster got the signal so I would suggest getting a lighted ir blaster so you know when it gets a signal. Second I used a stereo adapter to plug into the port on the back and because it had two rings if I pushed it in all the way it would not send a signal. So I had to push it in only half way for it to work. I would of known this right away with the ir blaster that light up. Next they suggest making little ir forts with electrical tape put i found a more elegant cable that replaces the ir blaster on ebay. It should work directly with the IR in port of the RNG 110 its called a Universal Comcast DTA Cable Direct Cable http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...e+Direct+Cable
This connects directly from the USBUIRT to the RNG 110 so you don't have to worry about the ir signals changing the other boxes or not hitting the sensor correctly.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[mgpaulus]

Thanks Jeff.

You know, that cable looks suspiciously like a 1/8" mono to mono cable, available at any RatShack (Like this, I suspect: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2102950). But, good to know that maybe I can get something like that to work, and not have to worry about making little shields.

[sdsean]

BTW, i would goto 6GB. Yes 4GB it probably adequate, but an extra 2GB will cost you $100 tops and be well worth it. I run Sage as a service and client all day/night long and my mem usage creeps very close to 1GB of RAM on its own (yes I have the heap set high),
and with a large number of recordings, etc. it will be will worth it.

[doncote0]

Memory is relatively cheap and you are running a 64 bit system.

Since you have 4 GB, I am guessing your memory upgrades in pairs (mine upgrades in 3).

***OOPS...update...RTFQ...AMD only upgrades in pairs***

I would check the owners manual and go to the maximum for the slot the memory is going into.

If the owner's manual says each slot can use a 4GB DIMM, buy (2) 4GB DIMM's to upgrade that bank to the max.

Check the specs of your existing memory. You probably want the same specs for your other bank of memory, but some people say it's not that important if the DIMM's are in separate banks. (At a minimum, make sure it's compatible, of course.)

For your system, I would imagine 8GB of GSKILL Ripjaws memory costing about $80 -$100 total (including shipping) from newegg. Faster memory (faster than DDR3 1600 [PC3 12800], would be a little more.

[doncote0]

You know, that cable looks suspiciously like a 1/8" mono to mono cable, available at any RatShack (Like this, I suspect: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2102950). But, good to know that maybe I can get something like that to work, and not have to worry about making little shields.

Is that two black rings on each end of the cable? If so, it is stereo. Mono would be one black ring on an end.

Genxnurse, do you have a standard stereo cable you can compare it to?

Does that "Comcast" cable have two black rings on each end?

Are the rings the same distance from the tip of the ends as a standard stereo cable?

Thanks!

[MrKrabs]

Originally Posted by mgpaulus

Will Sage be happy for the long term w/4GB?

You're already maxed out with Sage. Since Sage is distributed as a 32-bit binary it can only access 2GB by default. Possibly they could get to 3GB with a special compile switch, but I'm not sure if that is even available in the Java Runtime Engine.

Memory and Address Space Limits

You've got nothing to lose by going with 32-bit Windows and you tend to get more mature drivers.

[doncote0]

He's running 64 bit, MrKrabs.

Like many of us, he decided for whatever reason that 32 bit was not ideal for his current and future needs.

[MrKrabs]

Originally Posted by doncote0

He's running 64 bit, MrKrabs.

Like many of us, he decided for whatever reason that 32 bit was not ideal for his current and future needs.

I understand, but it's important to understand that Sage is still a 32-bit program. Windows runs it in a layer stupidly named WOW64, which emulates 32-bit windows. 32-bit programs use 32-bit memory pointers and at most access a theoretical 2^32 = 4GB of memory. But in practice the link I posted are the limits of a windows process, which as a programmer I've had to live with for a long time now.

If/when Sage releases both 32 and 64 bit versions of the program you'll get access to all of the memory installed. Also this would necessitate rewrites of ComSkip and our other favorite plugins to be compatible. It's no fun porting all of that code and probably won't happen for good long time.

Sorry guys, I didn't make the rules.

[doncote0]

In many cases (but only to a certain extent currently), those rules can be broken.

Why not just use the /AWE switch (along with the native /PAE of a 64 bit OS) to allow a 32 bit process to access more memory in a 64 bit environment?

From Microsoft:

AWE does not require PAE or 4GT but is often used together with PAE to allocate more than 4 GB of physical memory from a single 32-bit process.

Just kidding... I know that AWE is only for 32 bit OS's (and it is going to stop being supported by the OS or server apps).

The extra memory helps for all of the non-sage stuff in any OS (32 or 64 bit).

That said, with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE:YES flag 32 bit Sage can access up to 4GB in a 64 bit environment--as long as SageTV was developed with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag (which is a good practice during development).

[Spectrum]

We've had the PAE discussion here before Even with PAE enabled on a 32 bit windows box, process are limited to 2GB of addressable memory and all processes are limited to a shared 2GB kernel memory. (Note, I may be wording things wrong, I'm quoting from memory). It doesn't matter how much memory is installed in a 32 bit Windows box using PAE, those are limits imposed by the OS.

So I'm not completely thread jacking, 4GB is plenty of RAM for Sage and all the plugins you want. It's when you start using the box for other things where you may hit a wall, but it's unlikely that you would hit that wall in day to day operation. If you start doing development on that box or running scientific apps then this paragraph doesn't apply

[MrKrabs]

Crap, I've got a couple of decades worth of code that i need to recompile with the LARGE_TUPPERWARE flag. Which flag should I be using for the 128-bit version of Windows and heaven forbid the 256-bit version?

[Rico66]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

We've had the PAE discussion here before Even with PAE enabled on a 32 bit windows box, process are limited to 2GB of addressable memory and all processes are limited to a shared 2GB kernel memory. (Note, I may be wording things wrong, I'm quoting from memory). It doesn't matter how much memory is installed in a 32 bit Windows box using PAE, those are limits imposed by the OS.

So I'm not completely thread jacking, 4GB is plenty of RAM for Sage and all the plugins you want. It's when you start using the box for other things where you may hit a wall, but it's unlikely that you would hit that wall in day to day operation. If you start doing development on that box or running scientific apps then this paragraph doesn't apply

You could probably even argue whether 2GB is enough or not for a plain Sage system. I bet it is, especially if you're not using an igp.

[MrKrabs]

Originally Posted by doncote0

Ask the people that "make the rules" for the OS you are developing in. They are the same ones that supply the "best practices".

(Those people are the programmers at Microsoft, but I do not know how many decades of code that is worth.)



I think you have a while though--it took Microsoft about 7 years to roll out a reliable end user targeted 64 bit OS after the first one they made available.

Sorry doncote0, I owe you an apology, I'm only on these forums because I'm at my wits end with Sage and the stability problems I have encountered migrating from rock-solid v6 to v7. Two rounds of official support is all I needed to decide I wasn't going to get much help there. I believe they know that at least a good number of us are having stability problems and either can't reproduce or just don't know why.


Although the forums aren't officially monitored by Sage it seems they've abandoned them completely. I'm frustrated that they've not taken the time to clarify issues 64-bit memory allocation that can cost people lots of money to no avail throwing more memory at the problem.

I can't throw stones, because I've personally had products over the years that I was sure was solid but a trip to my client's site revealed some serious problems. Once I spent 3 weeks at Bank of America just trying to figure out what the hell was going on and only with the help of a network guru from IBM did I learn the cause. The fix was done overnight, but that was by far my most costly bug.

On another note, Microsoft is too busy trying to push cloud development and mobile Windows 7 development, that they've abandoned their bread and butter from a developers standpoint. The reason Vista and Windows 7 were so badly needed were also a result of their own programmers not following best practices and leaving tons of vulnerabilities, most of them buffer overflows, which is a known issue from DOS days.

Smokem peace pipe?

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

Although the forums aren't officially monitored by Sage it seems they've abandoned them completely.

This statement is simply not correct. I'm 100% certain that sage people monitor the forums. Just because they do not reply does not mean they do not read.

[MrKrabs]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

This statement is simply not correct. I'm 100% certain that sage people monitor the forums. Just because they do not reply does not mean they do not read.

Great!

Dear Sage,

Why does my system:
-Crash during playback often faulting in MPEGDemux.ax regardless of selected Codec and even when the Registry Utility is supposed to have disabled it
-Tell me no tuners are available which forces me to trick it by color calibrating the tuner in Video Sources that is there and wasn't in use
-Go into spinning circle endlessly randomly
-Pause LiveTV and then play in FF to catch up

Sincerely,
Mr Krabs

I think my time in the forums is over. People want to pretend this product is fine when it's not...enjoy yourselves.

PS which MythTV distro is best?

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

I think my time in the forums is over. People want to pretend this product is fine when it's not...enjoy yourselves.

PS which MythTV distro is best?

Nice attempt at baiting. I'll bite.

To the former: It is fine, rock solid. The thing that is not stable is your system.
To the latter: So your Ferrari is broken and you ask for advice on the best Honda? good luck with that See ya.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

You're already maxed out with Sage. Since Sage is distributed as a 32-bit binary it can only access 2GB by default. Possibly they could get to 3GB with a special compile switch, but I'm not sure if that is even available in the Java Runtime Engine.

Memory and Address Space Limits

You've got nothing to lose by going with 32-bit Windows and you tend to get more mature drivers.

Java 32bit Runtime Engine can only access up to 1.5GB
All 32bit application with in 64Bit OS can be all way up to 4GB per application dependent but most programs will be developed to use a specific amount of memory.
XP good for 2GB or 3GB with PAE switch enables depend on all you other hardware on board memory namely high end video card.
Vista good for a trash can.
Windows 7 now that depend on ver you run if it the 32bit well then it will be the same as XP in tell you go with 64Bit OS.
Windows 7 as Media Server only with 2GB is just fine I have been run it for 2+ years now with SageTV but if you have other plans then it would be good idea to just 4GB+ depend on your need.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

Great!

Dear Sage,

Why does my system:
-Crash during playback often faulting in MPEGDemux.ax regardless of selected Codec and even when the Registry Utility is supposed to have disabled it
-Tell me no tuners are available which forces me to trick it by color calibrating the tuner in Video Sources that is there and wasn't in use
-Go into spinning circle endlessly randomly
-Pause LiveTV and then play in FF to catch up

Sincerely,
Mr Krabs

I think my time in the forums is over. People want to pretend this product is fine when it's not...enjoy yourselves.

PS which MythTV distro is best?

Mr Krabs you know it kind of hard to help any one with out any hardware system info?.
As for (MythTV distro is best) will it gose like this you better know your shit when dealing with linux it not a cut dry install and work thing.
You think Windows DLL hell is fun just for Linux Dependency hell or compile hell show up it drive you bateee hehe