Stay or Bail ?

[daz19]

With the recent acquisition of Sage TV I wondered how many of you are looking for alternatives solutions. I myself have looked around but have yet to find anything that comes close to sage tv full stop....

It really shows how you take it for granted that sage tv will always be there to record and stream your tv shows and media to your extenders, clients and paceshifters.

I think sagetv is a genius bit of software that has become the core of my home entertainment hub and I for one will be staying.

[Fredo44]

never change a running system
I will consider this statement as long as SageTV is working as it is supposed to do.

But anyway, i will be prepared. I am currently playing around with mediaportal which is opensource and seems to have a good base for further developments.

[KeithAbbott]

I plan to ride it out as long as possible. What I think ultimately will push me away from Sage is the erosion of WAF. Various features remain under the control of Sage (e.g. EPG, channel logos, fanart), when that plug gets pulled there may not be exact replacements available. Presumably, the Schedules Direct plug-in will be available for all to use at that point, which will take care of most, but maybe not all, of our EPG needs. So far, no equivalent for the channel logos and fanart has been found. And finally, at least for me, getting the Colossus (or HD-PVR) working reliably will be key to keeping Sage around for awhile.

[Localhorst]

Hi,

to be honest i installed SageTV for the first time, right after i read the "aquired by google" news in several news magazine. So i might not fiddled out everything which is possible, but so far as i can see it well okay but the software does not elate me at all. From the technical point of view it looks like an assembly of several parially open source codecs (ac3filter, dscaler, Mainconcept), some parts are written in java, some in c++. Even if it looks like made of one piece it is a conglomerate of multiple applications wrapped under one hood.
I honestly prefer (as developer) a bit more consistency in projects - especially in order not to loose some sort of overview.
Anyway thats not the answer to the question by daz. There are a lot of alternative, but only a few of them are really worth to try out. First of all XBMC, which is nice but does not have a dvr engine. The one which is currently in the works is lightyears away from beeing useful. But it is free and if you do not want to have TV and Radio on board a great way to handle with. Mediaportal is well lets say something like the cancered version of XBMC. It grows from release to release and gets unstable like hell.
And finally my choice: The DVBViewer which is probably the only HTPC project made in one piece from the same developer team since 2002. I did not found anything in the feature list of Sage, XBMC, Mediaportal etc. which is not already inside the DVBViewer. This starts with the magical placeshifter and ends up with the probably best integration of digital tv/radio hardware. Almost every adapter is supported and there is no limitation how many devices you want to use in the same time. I guess there is no standard which is not supported yet (except HBBTV). CC, ISDB, DVB-Subtitles are running since ages. The program is translated in almost every language - even mandarin, japanese and farsi.
There is a demo which can be used for testing.

Horst
PS: I wonder why so less people here ever heard of the program, their board has 5x more users than Sagetv and according to google trends well lets say the only peak above the DVBViewer trend is from this month

[sandor]

i'm looking (as always) but staying for as long as possible.

why?

sagetv just works. yes, there may be no more updates and changes, etc, but for PVR functionality, i have found nothing that is even close.

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

So far, no equivalent for the channel logos and fanart has been found.

Well, you have BMT which will pull FanArt.
And as far as ChannelLogos, don't you just need to put them in SageTV\ChannelLogos ?

Think there are several Channel Packs in Images section of the Plugin repository.
Those not there, you can pull/copy from Zap2It or other sources.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you are meaning.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by Localhorst

Hi,

to be honest i installed SageTV for the first time, right after i read the "aquired by google" news in several news magazine. So i might not fiddled out everything which is possible, but so far as i can see it well okay but the software does not elate me at all. From the technical point of view it looks like an assembly of several parially open source codecs (ac3filter, dscaler, Mainconcept), some parts are written in java, some in c++. Even if it looks like made of one piece it is a conglomerate of multiple applications wrapped under one hood.
I honestly prefer (as developer) a bit more consistency in projects - especially in order not to loose some sort of overview.
Anyway thats not the answer to the question by daz. There are a lot of alternative, but only a few of them are really worth to try out. First of all XBMC, which is nice but does not have a dvr engine. The one which is currently in the works is lightyears away from beeing useful. But it is free and if you do not want to have TV and Radio on board a great way to handle with. Mediaportal is well lets say something like the cancered version of XBMC. It grows from release to release and gets unstable like hell.
And finally my choice: The DVBViewer which is probably the only HTPC project made in one piece from the same developer team since 2002. I did not found anything in the feature list of Sage, XBMC, Mediaportal etc. which is not already inside the DVBViewer. This starts with the magical placeshifter and ends up with the probably best integration of digital tv/radio hardware. Almost every adapter is supported and there is no limitation how many devices you want to use in the same time. I guess there is no standard which is not supported yet (except HBBTV). CC, ISDB, DVB-Subtitles are running since ages. The program is translated in almost every language - even mandarin, japanese and farsi.
There is a demo which can be used for testing.

Horst
PS: I wonder why so less people here ever heard of the program, their board has 5x more users than Sagetv and according to google trends well lets say the only peak above the DVBViewer trend is from this month

It seems to be focused on DVB. I also didn't see any sort of hardware extender in my brief review.

B

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

It seems to be focused on DVB. I also didn't see any sort of hardware extender in my brief review.

B

yep didn't see support of ... well any tuner I use mce-500 pvr-2250, hd-pvr, ceton, hava. the search continues.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by graywolf

Well, you have BMT which will pull FanArt.
And as far as ChannelLogos, don't you just need to put them in SageTV\ChannelLogos ?

Think there are several Channel Packs in Images section of the Plugin repository.
Those not there, you can pull/copy from Zap2It or other sources.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you are meaning.

In my original comment, I probably should have specified that no equivalent has been found yet in Schedules Direct.

As far as BMT, not having used it (yet), can BMT display the fanart on the fly when you are viewing a show in the EPG, like Sage 7.1 does? Or does it only display fanart on shows that have been recorded?

Last, IMO a better location to store channel logos is in the GeneratedThumbnails directory. It has provisions to store 3 different images (small, medium, and large) for each channel. The nice thing about 7.1 is that it finds those logos for you, so as new channels are added by your provider, or as new logos become available for existing channels by Zap2it, they are automatically added, no manual care and feeding necessary. Thus the potential WAF issue.

[SpecialK]

Originally Posted by Localhorst

Hi,

to be honest i installed SageTV for the first time, right after i read the "aquired by google" news in several news magazine. So i might not fiddled out everything which is possible, but so far as i can see it well okay but the software does not elate me at all. From the technical point of view it looks like an assembly of several parially open source codecs (ac3filter, dscaler, Mainconcept), some parts are written in java, some in c++. Even if it looks like made of one piece it is a conglomerate of multiple applications wrapped under one hood.
I honestly prefer (as developer) a bit more consistency in projects - especially in order not to loose some sort of overview.
Anyway thats not the answer to the question by daz. There are a lot of alternative, but only a few of them are really worth to try out. First of all XBMC, which is nice but does not have a dvr engine. The one which is currently in the works is lightyears away from beeing useful. But it is free and if you do not want to have TV and Radio on board a great way to handle with. Mediaportal is well lets say something like the cancered version of XBMC. It grows from release to release and gets unstable like hell.
And finally my choice: The DVBViewer which is probably the only HTPC project made in one piece from the same developer team since 2002. I did not found anything in the feature list of Sage, XBMC, Mediaportal etc. which is not already inside the DVBViewer. This starts with the magical placeshifter and ends up with the probably best integration of digital tv/radio hardware. Almost every adapter is supported and there is no limitation how many devices you want to use in the same time. I guess there is no standard which is not supported yet (except HBBTV). CC, ISDB, DVB-Subtitles are running since ages. The program is translated in almost every language - even mandarin, japanese and farsi.
There is a demo which can be used for testing.

Horst
PS: I wonder why so less people here ever heard of the program, their board has 5x more users than Sagetv and according to google trends well lets say the only peak above the DVBViewer trend is from this month

1) I do not see support for extenders.
2) I do not see support for the HD Homerun.
3) I do not see support for the Hauppauge HD-PVR.

All of these devices are used heavily by Sagetv users.

[will]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Thus the potential WAF issue.

You are the first person I have encountered who said WAF = Station Logos and Fanart.

I use version 7.0.23 (rock solid and works wonderfully). I have loaded my own channel logos and if I am missing a logo or two it doesn't impact my ability to watch TV. As for Fanart, I have stayed away from the eye candy plugins as I don't want anything to deteriorate my stable performance.

I have two HD-PVRs and a HVR-2200 and in my experience WAF = tuners not locking up and missing TV shows. Sage has never been the "Belle of the Ball" and if eye candy is the most important thing then maybe you should consider MCE (the functionally sucks but at least it looks pretty).

I use Sage first and foremost to watch TV and Movies; if it doesn't do those two things perfectly then it doesn't matter how gorgeous it is.

[goatboy160]

Are there any other media extenders out there that support bmdv folders? I don't use any of the PVR technology in Sage the main reason I bought it was to play my DVD/Bluray collection. Which I've preserved exactly as it was on disc. DVD's are all raw VIDEO_TS folders, and sage gave me full menu's. Bluray's weren't quite as good, but the picture and the Audio came out raw what was on the disc, so for an audiophile like me that was exactly what I was looking for.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

As far as BMT, not having used it (yet), can BMT display the fanart on the fly when you are viewing a show in the EPG, like Sage 7.1 does? Or does it only display fanart on shows that have been recorded?

Sage does not download or display fanart natively in any release. The Phoenix plugin can gather it and display it in the base STV. Diamond can display it if you are using the diamond STVi. BMT is just the jetty plugin that can be used for management.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Sage does not download or display fanart natively in any release.

Maybe I am just using the wrong terminology. What I am referring to is the artwork that is displayed within the EPG guide, as you are browsing different shows to potentially watch. For most movies, when you put the cursor on that movie in the EPG, a thumbnail is displayed of the movie poster. Same thing for many of the television series. If Sage cannot locate an appropriate thumbnail for the movie or television series, it displays the channel logo instead. My understanding is that Sage Media Center retrieves the thumbnail graphic from Zap2it.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by goatboy160

Are there any other media extenders out there that support bmdv folders?

Dune's streamers for one, not as cheap as Sage's but they support BD menus.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

The nice thing about 7.1 is that it finds those logos for you, so as new channels are added by your provider, or as new logos become available for existing channels by Zap2it, they are automatically added, no manual care and feeding necessary. Thus the potential WAF issue.

Wow, your wife gets upset if a channel logo is missing or not instantly up-to-date? I must have a really cool wife... she doesn't care about how anything looks, as long as it records her shows and she can play them.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Wow, your wife gets upset if a channel logo is missing or not instantly up-to-date? I must have a really cool wife... she doesn't care about how anything looks, as long as it records her shows and she can play them.

If you look back at my original post, what I referred to was erosion of WAF. I gave a couple of examples that could, in totality, cause some frustration in using Sage long-term. It doesn't take many "this feature is broke over here, that feature is broke over there" before spouses and children start to get annoyed, because they don't understand the reasons why it's broke, they just know it's broke.

Fortunately or unfortunately, release 7.0 and 7.1 raised the bar in quite a few areas in terms of functionality and usability. Once the bar is raised, it is difficult to lower it.

My hope is that alternative solutions and workarounds can be put in place prior to Sage pulling the plug.

As far as your wife, is it against forum rules to swap?

[Localhorst]

As i already written:
Even if the software does not list every available features, there are not that much missing. There is no DVB/ATSC/IDSB Hardware on the market which is not supported. Why do you think that hardware extenders are unsupported? The recording service (part of the DVBViewer) can stream all kind of live, recordings, media files via UPNP and also offers reencoding (via ffmpeg). If the device is unable to handle DLNA/UPNP you can stream your media files via http.
This means Ipad, hd homerun, PS3, Android or whatever can be used as client from scratch.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

As far as your wife, is it against forum rules to swap?

Considering how (relatively) patient mine has been with my Sage tinkering, you can't have her.

[simonen]

AFASMWIC (as far as my wife is concerned), she said "you do what is right for our family". The founders of Sage will do what is right for them.

Best of luck to them and we will move on to what is right for us.

Case closed...no hard feelings. It is only TV...there are so much more to life than TV.