Is selling/transferring licenses ok?

[cncb]

It has been brought to my attention that selling/transferring licenses (i.e. server & client software) may not be ok/legal? I originally bought them from PCAlchemy and don't see any indication that they are not transferrable but what is the official word on this? Thanks.

[jorton]

Just in case you didn't see this post, here is a post from Narflex regarding the topic,

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...&postcount=778

I don't think that anyone has addressed the transfer of Sagetv purchases from outside the Sagetv store (i.e. PCAlchemy etc...), and I could be wrong, but I would think that the EULA is in effect regardless of where you bought it as it is still licensed for use from Sagetv not the third party seller...

J

[carlgar]

Have you read the Eula in the Sage directory? non-transferable

1. License Grant. SageTV hereby grants Licensee a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to make one copy of the SageTV™ software, and any fixes, releases, updates, modifications or additions (collectively, the "Software") provided to Licensee by SageTV, for Licensee’s personal use, performance and display on Licensee’s home personal computer under the terms and conditions of this Agreement. The Software is in "use" on a computer when it is loaded into temporary memory (i.e. RAM) or installed into permanent memory (e.g., hard disk, CD-ROM, or other storage device) of that computer. The Software may be used on a single personal computer only and may only be networked or used on a server for access by multiple computers if those individual computers have a licensed version of the SageTV Client™ or SageTV Recorder™ installed. SageTV also grants Licensee a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable revocable license to use all media and documentation related to the Software at home, for non-commercial purposes. "Product" in this Agreement means the Software and all media and documentation related to the Software.

[cncb]

Ok, thanks.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by jorton

Just in case you didn't see this post, here is a post from Narflex regarding the topic,

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...&postcount=778

I don't think that anyone has addressed the transfer of Sagetv purchases from outside the Sagetv store (i.e. PCAlchemy etc...), and I could be wrong, but I would think that the EULA is in effect regardless of where you bought it as it is still licensed for use from Sagetv not the third party seller...

J

The same apply to any 3rdparty store purchases
Your licensed are tired to you when you frist purchases it
Name: {Input Name} [You can't used any old fake names here]
Key: {Input Key}
And can back trace when it was frist purchases it even the one from PCAlchemy.
Only SageTV hardware can be re-sold becuase it a Physical Product.
Take note: something about SageTV STX-HD100 Extender you can sell the hardware it self but not the license key becuase that was Digital Delivery by email so there it can be trace back you unlike HD200 and HD300 which has that inbeded in to the firmware.

[jorton]

Originally Posted by SHS

The same apply to any 3rdparty store purchases
Your licensed are tired to you when you frist purchases it
Name: {Input Name} [You can't used any old fake names here]
Key: {Input Key}
And can back trace when it was frist purchases it even the one from PCAlchemy.
Only SageTV hardware can be re-sold becuase it a Physical Product.
Take note: something about SageTV STX-HD100 Extender you can sell the hardware it self but not the license key becuase that was Digital Delivery by email so there it can be trace back you unlike HD200 and HD300 which has that inbeded in to the firmware.

Thanks for confirmation SHS.

J

[pez]

"and may only be networked or used on a server for access by multiple computers if those individual computers have a licensed version of the SageTV Client™ or SageTV Recorder™ installed. "

This statement in the EULA seems pretty explicit that accessing SageTV server via the webserver plugin from a computer that does not have Client or Recorder license is verboten.

I'm at work so i don't have access to the EULA to see if there is any other clauses that allows that type of access. And now that I think about it, was the EULA posted for general consumption such that it could be reviewed prior to purchasing the SW? I looked on the site but only the forums are up so....

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by pez

And now that I think about it, was the EULA posted for general consumption such that it could be reviewed prior to purchasing the SW?

The software runs for 21 days in trial mode without a license. So there's plenty of time to review the EULA before making a purchase.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

The software runs for 21 days in trial mode without a license. So there's plenty of time to review the EULA before making a purchase.

Outside of blatant copyright infringement, many restrictions outlined EULAs generally don't hold up in court. Kinda like when a landlord writes something like "hanging pictures on the walls is strictly prohibited" into a lease, then tries, and fails, to evict a tenant for "violating" that portion of it.

That said, Saogle is perfectly within their rights to not allow discussion of such things on their forums.

[peternm22]

Originally Posted by brainbone

Saogle

I like it, but how is it pronounced?

[FlyingShawn]

Originally Posted by SHS

The same apply to any 3rdparty store purchases
Your licensed are tired to you when you frist purchases it
Name: {Input Name} [You can't used any old fake names here]
Key: {Input Key}
And can back trace when it was frist purchases it even the one from PCAlchemy.
Only SageTV hardware can be re-sold becuase it a Physical Product.
Take note: something about SageTV STX-HD100 Extender you can sell the hardware it self but not the license key becuase that was Digital Delivery by email so there it can be trace back you unlike HD200 and HD300 which has that inbeded in to the firmware.

So does this mean that the people who are desperate enough to buy a "used" license in spite of the EULA are hosed and it won't work? (NOTE TO MODS: I'm not one of them, although I'll admit I had considered it, so please don't ban me for asking this) I understand that your point is it's still against the EULA regardless of where it was purchased, I'm just trying to understand how it is applied practically. Specifically:

Name: {Input Name} [You can't used any old fake names here]

I guess I'm confused what a "fake name" is. Does this mean that if someone bought "John Smith's" entire setup (server license, client licenses, etc) and installed it using the name "John Smith," it still wouldn't install and work properly?

[rparker]

Per Federal Court rulings.
Yes you can. Here is a news link about the courts ruling.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...16171201.shtml

[photon]

I think what they are saying is the license key and the name are tied together. The key will not work without the name of the person it was licensed to and the name has to be input exactly the same as is in the email. Different name from what was used to create the key won't work. Different key and correct name won't work.

The clear intention is that nobody but the person who paid SageTV for the license may use the key. You can't legally sell, buy, transfer or use somebody else's license. (You pay SageTV for licensed use under specific terms. It was not sold and does not become yours to do with as you please) I'm sure it would hold up in court.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by rparker

Per Federal Court rulings.
Yes you can. Here is a news link about the courts ruling.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...16171201.shtml

That just clears the way for the case to be tried in court. Autodesk was trying to get it dismissed so now it goes to court. No decision has been made.

Gerry

[reggie14]

Actually, I think the 9th circuit did decide on that case:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...e-licenses.ars

And, as much as it pains me to say, they seemed to decide very much against resale. If I remember correctly, the 9th circuit covers the entire state of California, so this would set a precedent for SageTV software.

And it's not quite that it's illegal to resell software, it's a breach of contract, I think. So Google could, in principal, sue for damages, but that's probably all.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by peternm22

I like it, but how is it pronounced?

/skrood/

[SHS]

Originally Posted by FlyingShawn

So does this mean that the people who are desperate enough to buy a "used" license in spite of the EULA are hosed and it won't work? (NOTE TO MODS: I'm not one of them, although I'll admit I had considered it, so please don't ban me for asking this) I understand that your point is it's still against the EULA regardless of where it was purchased, I'm just trying to understand how it is applied practically. Specifically:

I guess I'm confused what a "fake name" is. Does this mean that if someone bought "John Smith's" entire setup (server license, client licenses, etc) and installed it using the name "John Smith," it still wouldn't install and work properly?

When Sue Fisher purchased the software she has enter her License Key that was email to her from SageTV in order get it out of demo mode
For Example
Name: Sue Fisher
Key: 1111-1111-1111-1111-1111
Now Sue turn round an sell the License Key to John Smith
Now John Smith try enter it in like
Name: John Smith [You can't used any old fake names here]
Key: 1111-1111-1111-1111-1111
The Key tried the Sue Fisher under License Key Name when frist purchased and can't be change
That how you get caugh there are a few that are try sell there key on ebay I monitor it on ebay and I'm sure jeff dose to.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by SHS

That how you get caugh there are a few that are try sell there key on ebay I monitor it on ebay and I'm sure jeff dose to.

Why would Jeff even bother? Most companies don't particularly care if individuals are selling individual licenses, even if the software is still being sold. It's generally only when someone does it on a large scale that anyone cares.

It would be hard for Google to show substantial damages from violating the non-transfer clause of the EULA. And, unlike trademark law, you don't need to go after violators to keep the EULA enforceable.

Selling sage licenses certainly violates a binding contract, but it's also almost certainly not going to get you into any real trouble. Maybe Google would try to get your eBay account locked, but I highly doubt they would even go that far.

[simonen]

You paid money for it and if someone wants to buy it off of you and they are willing to use your name as a part of the serial #, that is up to them with the understanding that support would not exist, not that it will exist much longer either way.

[cncb]

Well, the threat was enough to make me remove the licenses from my listing. I doubt they would try to sue me but I don't want any kind of trouble with Sage/Google. It doesn't make a lot of sense, though, since I have licenses that other people could use and can't purchase otherwise...