Narflex please keep fighting for client licenses

[speck55]

Originally Posted by JetreL

Google?? Facebook?? MySpace??
-=[If you don't pay for the product, chances are you are the product]=-

I forgot to give you props on that one -- people don't get that. Not to go too far off topic, it's profoundly true, look back at when Facebook (or was it MySpace?) raised all that cane for changing their terms of service to indicate that they owned all rights to anything the user posted, in perpetuity, etc., etc., etc. They eventually rolled back those changes, but it goes to show the thought process.

Places like Google, amaze me. They have built an empire based solely on text-based ads (I know they now have other products, but the original moneymaker..) -- a clean, undistracting search start page with nothing but their logo, a query textbox, and two submit buttons. The ads aren't animated, flashing, Flash, just unobtrusive text and text links, and now paid placement in results.

All the while people like Microsoft pumping millions into repeated attempts at the same search engine market, even offering cash back for buying things found via their engine, and renaming and reincarnating it a million times, haven't come close.

[GMan78]

For more insight into Google's plans for the home, please see this article from CNNfn.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/11/tech..._home/?npt=NP1

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by speck55

I forgot to give you props on that one -- people don't get that. Not to go too far off topic, it's profoundly true, look back at when Facebook (or was it MySpace?) raised all that cane for changing their terms of service to indicate that they owned all rights to anything the user posted, in perpetuity, etc., etc., etc. They eventually rolled back those changes, but it goes to show the thought process.

Places like Google, amaze me. They have built an empire based solely on text-based ads (I know they now have other products, but the original moneymaker..) -- a clean, undistracting search start page with nothing but their logo, a query textbox, and two submit buttons. The ads aren't animated, flashing, Flash, just unobtrusive text and text links, and now paid placement in results.

All the while people like Microsoft pumping millions into repeated attempts at the same search engine market, even offering cash back for buying things found via their engine, and renaming and reincarnating it a million times, haven't come close.

+1

[ThePaladinTech]

I often tell people about your signature when I am working on there computer and they ask "well how is x free"

[JetreL]

Thanks all about my Sig. One day it just seemed right to put it as a signature and it's been there since. I have been using the Internet for a very long time and have always been amazed at how open people are about putting their information out there for everyone to see.

A lot of people don't realize once you put your personal data on the Internet it's there and there is practically nothing you can do you get it off. (Streisand Effect)

And with all the data miners out there you never know what will become of your data once it's out there.

Now just so everyone knows I am not anti-anyone in my signature (well maybe except Facebook who chooses to err on the side of sharing private information over keeping privacy with your security settings)

I personally use Google products daily, own a Android phone as well and use Facebook pretty regularly. So this is more my personal campaign to say be careful of what you put out there because you never know who might be watching and once it gets there good luck getting any of it private again. Not to mention you never know in 5 or 10 years how what you are sharing with these companies may be used for. A company reinvents itself every 5-8 years so what might be policy now may be a lot more open in the coming years.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by JetreL

Thanks all about my Sig. One day it just seemed right to put it as a signature and it's been there since. I have been using the Internet for a very long time and have always been amazed at how open people are about putting their information out there for everyone to see.

A lot of people don't realize once you put your personal data on the Internet it's there and there is practically nothing you can do you get it off. (Streisand Effect)

And with all the data miners out there you never know what will become of your data once it's out there.

Now just so everyone knows I am not anti-anyone in my signature (well maybe except Facebook who chooses to err on the side of sharing private information over keeping privacy with your security settings)

I personally use Google products daily, own a Android phone as well and use Facebook pretty regularly. So this is more my personal campaign to say be careful of what you put out there because you never know who might be watching and once it gets there good luck getting any of it private again. Not to mention you never know in 5 or 10 years how what you are sharing with these companies may be used for. A company reinvents itself every 5-8 years so what might be policy now may be a lot more open in the coming years.

Not to mention we have, well, to be polite, the people who less-than-think-things-through, that post photos of their underage drinking/wife-cheating/<pick your vice/offense>. AND leave them public. (even if not public, the good ol' friends of friends feature or a subpoena are great tools for the legal process).

Those same people cry foul when they get busted for something (at least blur your license plate out in the street racing video),

or when they've been to umpteen interviews and haven't heard back. NO WAY would a perspective employer use FaceBook or MySpace or Google. What was the little thing about "may obtain reports from any source including other people as to my character blah blah" again?

or when the divorce proceedings take an unexpected turn south, as the Wifey's attorney pulls out prints of your FaceBook photos and postings blown up to 3 x 5 foot poster-size?

[panteragstk]

That is one of the reasons I never let people video tape anything when I was in college. I'd always tell them that all it would ever be was "evidence". If you wouldn't want your grandma to see it, don't put it on the internet.

Check out this gizmodo article about social media background checks.

[dealsdyker]

Back on topic, what makes anyone believe Narflex even bothered to fight for client licenses in the first place?

I think Jeff wants everyone's support for *his* future while leaving our present and future... our SageTV systems un-expandable. Maybe Narflex isn't the right name. Perhaps it should be Narcissist. Having Google date him, wine him, dine him, and ultimately.... deliver the package... full of cash and Jeff seems to be all about Jeff.

So now we're left unable to expand on the central entertainment hubs of our homes. The good people of this community socialized SageTV to our friends, have posted here to help others, created plug-ins at no charge, and Jeff and company trampled over the good people of this forum tossing us under the bus leaving our systems in a state impossible to expand. This was their CHOICE. Nobody forced them. Google asked "how much to screw everyone over unable to expand" and Jeff answered with a price. And the price was paid.

I don't "wish Jeff the best". He already got the best... buckets of cash. Neither do I congratulate him for his decision for personal gain at the expense of his (former) customer base expandability. I wish for client licenses and will congratulate him for doing the right thing, if I see that happen.

[graywolf]

tossing us under the bus

Reminded me of a "theme song" we have at work.

The wheels on the bus go thump, thump, THUMP

[APillowOfClouds]

Originally Posted by graywolf

Reminded me of a "theme song" we have at work.

The wheels on the bus go thump, thump, THUMP

ROTFLMAO thank you I needed that very badly this week

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by dealsdyker

Back on topic, what makes anyone believe Narflex even bothered to fight for client licenses in the first place?

How about this post:

Originally Posted by Narflex

(I do understand the other complaints about no client licenses or extenders....and we are still trying to work on potential solutions to those problems)

You all know I don't have the freedom to say anything I want like I did when I was running the place; but I am still advocating for the community and doing what I can to help out the users who have supported us over the years.

As evidence of his good faith, he's already addressed the V7 upgrade issue and brought SageTV tech support back online. So yeah, I tend to believe him when he says he's working on it.

But if the idea is to convince him that's a waste of time and he should just blow us all off and not look back, rants like yours are probably a good way to do that.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by dealsdyker

Back on topic, what makes anyone believe Narflex even bothered to fight for client licenses in the first place?

I think Jeff wants everyone's support for *his* future while leaving our present and future... our SageTV systems un-expandable. Maybe Narflex isn't the right name. Perhaps it should be Narcissist. Having Google date him, wine him, dine him, and ultimately.... deliver the package... full of cash and Jeff seems to be all about Jeff.

So now we're left unable to expand on the central entertainment hubs of our homes. The good people of this community socialized SageTV to our friends, have posted here to help others, created plug-ins at no charge, and Jeff and company trampled over the good people of this forum tossing us under the bus leaving our systems in a state impossible to expand. This was their CHOICE. Nobody forced them. Google asked "how much to screw everyone over unable to expand" and Jeff answered with a price. And the price was paid.

I don't "wish Jeff the best". He already got the best... buckets of cash. Neither do I congratulate him for his decision for personal gain at the expense of his (former) customer base expandability. I wish for client licenses and will congratulate him for doing the right thing, if I see that happen.

I was ranting that style rant about a month ago now. I've since given up on it being heard/cared about by Jeff or anyone at the conglomerate. I think a lot of other people started in the same direction, and the number of users you see online in the forums dwindling, people are losing/have lost faith. I made the decision to stick with it until it doesn't provide for my needs anymore.

On that note, the longevity of these forums are undoubtedly in question, and I am contemplating opening a new domain/forum to keep those of us still using/developing plugins for the system a home once this one is powered off.

The open source folks seem to have a point here, now don't they?

[uberpixel]

You can definitely see how we are all moving through these stages as we mourn our loss...

Denial: Must've been a mistake - why would google kill SageTV? Does google even know what SageTV is?

Anger: How could SageTV sell out and leave us twisting in the wind? Doesn't Jeff know I was about to pad his wallet with $150 for a new HD300. Not to mention that $29 client license that may really come in handy? How could he walk away from all of my money?

Bargaining: Maybe we can get google to open the store back up for a day - just one day? For additional bargaining see eBay and search SageTV...

Depression: This just sucks (this is where I'm at for the moment).

Acceptance: What choice do we have but to accept the situation and hope for the best? (see also: defeat)


I'm not ready to give up on SageTV just yet, but it seems odd that more care wasn't taken towards keeping the existing user base satisfied. What's the harm in letting us know that SageTV has been purchased and we have only 3 months to purchase SageTV products before the store is permanently closed?

[uberpixel]

Originally Posted by uberpixel

I'm not ready to give up on SageTV just yet, but it seems odd that more care didn't towards keeping the existing user base satisfied. What's the harm in letting us know that SageTV has been purchased and we have only 3 months to purchase SageTV products before the store is permanently closed?

Oh crap.

Looks like I'm back to bargaining... It's just that I don't think any one is listening...

-uberpixel

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

How about this post:



As evidence of his good faith, he's already addressed the V7 upgrade issue and brought SageTV tech support back online. So yeah, I tend to believe him when he says he's working on it.

But if the idea is to convince him that's a waste of time and he should just blow us all off and not look back, rants like yours are probably a good way to do that.

I think I'm somewhere in the middle. I wrote what I thought when this went down, and said I hoped I was wrong.

So far, I am not.

If Sage represents such an insignificant group of users, then yeah, why not leave the store open for 90 days? Is it like that's going to invite hoards of people to "stash" licenses? A few might. I don't think I would. If Sage was never THAT popular anyway, then who cares, really, except us that use it?

Remember, something else could break Sage - OS changes, Java, etc., that would require something beyond a talented coder who did not own Sage code outright to be able to fix.

I'm not sure why very many people would hoard licenses or extenders to a dead product. I think the vast majority, would, like me, take a long hard look at what we might see our Sage systems being one day, buy a few clients and/or extenders with a couple spares, and say goodbye. For me, that would be 3 extenders and 3 client licenses. Hardly a mega-hoarder's order.

Let's face it - the Sage 6 to 7 thing was a bit of a mess as far as upgrades go. Giving the 6's the .exe to go to 7 was cool.

On the other hand, and I realize it's about impossible to tell intonation from a post, I don't think a sticky would have been out of line for Narflex to post saying something to the effect of don't freak out I am on vacation and at Google for the next 3-4 weeks. Any other time might not matter. Right now it does. It's not like anyone is expecting him to detail his vacation or private matters with Google.

And really, would it be that hard to put something on these boards even if the thought did not strike one until one was on vacation or at Google? I check my email every couple days on vacation. I doubt he went away on vacation and to Google and just never looked at this forum or his email. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Would I post something threatening or demeaning to him personally on these boards? Of course not. But that does not mean I think I have lost my right as a paying Sage customer to complain or disagree. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't use hacks or keygens or crap like that. I paid for all my Sage software and hardware.

I guess if a few ticked off people tilt the balance against the rest, it's not like we will ever know anyway. To me, it's getting to the point where it hardly matters. I don't really want to build an HTPC in 3 rooms. Hardware, software, and the OS would push easily against the $500 per cpu level unless you just put junk or had scads of surplus laying around. Not to mention sleeping/power consumption issues that the extenders don't suffer from. Might as well just go off-brand extender and remote-desktop onto the server to program it. A bit Rube Goldberg, but at least not as tedious as these forums have become. At least until something decent open source comes along, although that may be a while.

I suppose I will believe it the day the Google truck rolls up to my house and offers me 1Gb/s no-cap and no-throttle internet at a competitive price. If Verizon and AT&T can't do it, I don't think Google can. ClearWire is struggling. I watched when cities tried to provide free wireless during the tech boom. A debacle. Google "Metrocom", for example. Microwave broadband is great if you are line of sight. We have a great one around here with 5 different towers in range, but our neighborhood's topography negates its use.

A Google search engine would run pretty decently even on an old dial-up since it's so simple a web page. But all-HD all the time on all different sets in a house? As I said, I'll believe it when the Google truck rolls up with that fast service.

What's a shame is all the hard work the talented coders in the forums put in, as well as members with great ideas and solutions and innovations. Sage never had it so good. A whole secondary development and support team for free. Wonder if Google realizes how LITTLE they got for their money, and what does NOT come with Sage?

[cncb]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

As evidence of his good faith, he's already addressed the V7 upgrade issue and brought SageTV tech support back online.

Good faith would have been working all the details out beforehand instead of acting like the whole deal snuck up on them and now they're trying to "work things out". Show a little respect to the community and tell it to us straight right away so we can move on or not, instead of giving vague hope for the future...

[crusing]

I am OK with SageTV being dead at this point. I guess I have reached acceptance. It sure as hell would be nice to keep it running for at least another year to recover my investment. I only switched to Sage about 9 months ago and bought several HD300's. which are the best thing since beer. OK maybe not beer, but at least as good as sliced bread. I am not going to give up on the licenses though as I use HD300's in my primary viewing locations and as soon as one dies it's bye bye Sage. The only thing that makes me sad at this point is the amazing work being done be the developers of Phoenix. They have shown the true potential of v7 and the HD300 and it's sad that it will probably end at some point in the next year.

[uberpixel]

Originally Posted by cncb

Good faith would have been working all the details out beforehand instead of acting like the whole deal snuck up on them and now they're trying to "work things out". Show a little respect to the community and tell it to us straight right away so we can move on or not, instead of giving vague hope for the future...

I agree 100%.

Is anyone else starting to get annoyed by the big grinning emoticon that accompanies Jeff's announcement of the google acquisition at the top of the forum listings.

It's like - yeah look at how big I'm smiling now!!!

I'm sure it wasn't deliberate, but it's starting to get on my nerves. I wonder if Jeff knows that he and his partners and chosen developers are the only people from this community that have benefited from the google deal?

I suppose I'm now back on Anger. I appear to moving backwards in my grieving process...

-uberpixel

[Fuzzy]

I believe the details WERE worked out before hand. Google was acquiring Sage, for a given price. There aren't any more details to be concerned with. It was decided that the store would be closed. that was done. It was also decided that Jeff and the others would sign an NDA regarding SageTV and its roles in Google. That was also done. The decision was made (probably mostly based on the extender warranty period) to provide support for at least a year (reasonable, and a minimal-to-nothing cost to google). More people know about sage than ever before, simply because of the google purchase. i have a feeling there would be a LOT of people wanting to get in on the ground floor with the google/sage system, and, had the store remained open, many would have thrown money at sage to get a glimpse of google's new toy. The last thing google wants as part of the acquisition is a slew of new customer support requests for a product that they don't intend to continue in it's current form. In my opinion, they had no choice but to close down the store.

[martin]

I’ve worried about the end of SageTV since I first bought it in 2006. In 2009 I upgraded to High Definition, and spent a lot of money on three Motorola cable boxes and Hauppauge HD-PVRs. I also bought two HD200 extenders, keeping one as a spare.

I was well prepared for the blackout of Sage’s website. I spent a lot of time getting the channel changing working with firewire, so I have my server’s hard drive backed up using Norton Ghost so I don’t have to figure that out again. All of my licence keys and software installation files are also backed up.

I have always been aware this system will only work as long as the EPG service is available, and that is my main concern. I was originally attracted to SageTV because of the one time cost for this service. In 2006 Tivo was charging outrageous annual fees for the same thing. SageTV is only as good as the EPG data, and even if I can get another source working, I have doubts it will be as good as what it is today.

If everything stops working in one year from now I will be disappointed, because I haven’t got the value out of all the hardware I bought. Cable companies are just now offering multi-room capabilities, but I’m not ready to scrap all my hardware to move to a new system.

The right thing for Google to do is keep the EPG service running until all of our hardware is obsolete. One year is not enough.