Come Back to SageTV - Open Source in "Near" Future

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

My issue with Kodi, unless it has changed, is that it isn't a client server implementation so you had to configure each clients and fix any issue with metadata, etc ...

With Kodi (or XBMC before it) you can set up one installation of Kodi's library as files on another. I have a Pi that's a dedicated "server" for at least ten "clients" ...

[aaronb]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I played with Kodi and SeverWMC a bit. I really don't get what's up with everyone "liking" Kodi for TV, from what I saw it's pretty abysmal. Even just looking at the recordings list pales in comparison to SageTV.

I agree that the PVR stuff built into Kodi is a bit lacking. Our plugin was not using any of that, it's a standalone addon that display and plays back your recordings with metadata. I haven't setup Sage on my new server yet or I would give some screenshots. It's not perfect, but if someone wants to consume all of their media in Kodi it was a pretty good option. Has some basic ability to schedule recordings, but is really centered around watching already recorded shows

(not trying to toot my own horn, I had hacked something together that worked specifically for my setup and the two other guys ran with it and made it 10x better)

[redman]

Thanks a lot Jeff.
Glad I have stayed with you.

Can't wait to see what comes now

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by valnar

I'm not sure how much time the original developers will have 'on the side' to help, and I fear all the best developers interested in PVR apps have moved onto the likes of MythTV or Kodi. I hope not....

the proof will be the EPG - if that is dealt with first, then we'll know that Sage as an entity has hope

[traker1001]

I use to love SageTV and the news has me psyched. I currently use Kodi with WMC. I would love it if something happened with Sage so that I could dump WMC. One very important thing I like about Kodi over any other solution though is that it is accessible. I actually have Text to speech reading the menus and guide and such.

I use to be able to do something similar with Sage, While I couldn't read the menus I could control the clients via the web guides that were developed with it.

My media center prayers would be answered if there were a meeting of the minds and a combination of features between Kodi and Sage.

[traker1001]

Originally Posted by Narflex

My current plan for this is to take all the relevant changes we've made in the past 3+ years at Google and merge them into the codebase from when we were acquired. (I've already done most of that work, I'm leaving out all the Google Fiber specific stuff since that's not relevant and just clogs up the codebase for y'all) I'll then run that version myself for awhile to ensure it's solid and then that'll be what we open source. The only code we've changed since acquisition that'll be released is basically the Java code. We didn't touch the native windows/linux code much here at all (w/ the exception that we wrote a whole new thing that did the recording/playback portion, i.e. network encoder/streamer, but that piece won't be open sourced as it wouldn't really be of use to you all)

Jeff / Narflex

I know occasionally Google sends out a hand to the Visually impaired community in there products. I don't suppose any of those changes included any kind of readability regarding Text to speech services?

You say the network encoder/streamer won't be Open sourced but it will be accessible, I.E. API? (Sorry if I don't know/understand what I am asking or if this is a dumb question.)

[SHS]

Will you keeping the Google UI Layout but change image?.
I do like how ver 8.? was done from all video I saw from Support Help with Google Fiber
I do like how TV guide was done
I also like Info bar
I also Current Recordings | Scheduled | Manage | Search thing
And also saw bunch other cool stuff but I'm sure some of it of that will be remove that cool.
But I do have ask did ever add this feature to Google Fiber?, Delete Recordings where it really keeps the recording for restore it if need be buy put it folder called Delete Recordings Folder where it can automatic delete at later time say like automatic delete ever few day base on when show/movie was first delete to help with accident delete which my brother good at hehe as it a real pain to recover and why I ash this sometime the dishnetwork hopper has and so I think that this would be very useful if haven't add ready add it.

[mayamaniac]

WOW WOW WOW!!!! Great news!!! I'm glad I still check the SageTV forum once in a while.

Thanks for getting Google to agree to this, Jeff. Was it hard to get them to make SageTV open source?

I know it's better late than never, but I'm just imagining how much better SageTV would've been by now if it was made open source a few years back when many SageTV developers were still using it. I'm guessing there are quite a few developers that abandoned SageTV in the last 2-3 years. Hopefully, they will have interest in SageTV again now that it is open sourced.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

The database seems to work pretty well and as long as you can directly read and update it with the API then I am not sure adopting something like MySQL is worth the extra complexity. I had to install something to have a central database for Kodi and it just adds to the complexity of the setup. It is kind of nice to be able to easily query the data with multiple tools but not sure it would be worth the extra overhead.

Also: I would imagine at this point separating the SageTV code from the wiz.bin would be a major undertaking.

While I agree I can see it if it was a simple replacement because then the data could be updated with SQL calls from already existing tools instead of having to write something to make API calls.

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by wayner

My issue with Kodi, unless it has changed, is that it isn't a client server implementation so you had to configure each clients and fix any issue with metadata, etc. Plex seemed much easier from this perspective and was much easier to run on many clients, particularly when they were on different types of devices like TVs, Xbox, tablets, phones, etc.

It is not part of the standard install but you can use a MySQL database as a central repository for your Video and Music Library. You then add an entry to the advancedsettings.xml telling it to use the central database. (I use the same file to all my Kodi clients.) I leave Kodi running on My NextPVR\SageTV server with a plugin called Watchdog which monitors the file system. And with this setup new files show up immediately on all clients.

Note: For shows to show up in the Kodi Library they have to be formatted correctly for Kodi to find them with a TVDB look up or with a custom .nfo file. NextPVR has plug-in called ImageGrabLite that will do the rename and custom .nfo so that the files show up in the Kodi TV Library. It works but there are some warts and nothing will show up in Kodi until it has finished recording.

The Kodi Live TV integration is really kind of a hack at this point. It works but the experience is rather lacking. Although it supports multiple backend servers none is really fully integrated into Kodi. NextPVR has a special plugin that runs in Kodi that can be used to watch live TV and schedule recording. The specail NextPVR plug-in essentially recreates the Native NextPVR interface within Kodi.

Also: The Library format created by NextPVR with the ImageGrabLite plug-in will also scan perfectly in Plex. I actually use Plex for phones and tablets.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

It is not part of the standard install but you can use a MySQL database as a central repository for your Video and Music Library. You then add an entry to the advancedsettings.xml telling it to use the central database. (I use the same file to all my Kodi clients.) I leave Kodi running on My NextPVR\SageTV server with a plugin called Watchdog which monitors the file system. And with this setup new files show up immediately on all clients.

Note: For shows to show up in the Kodi Library they have to be formatted correctly for Kodi to find them with a TVDB look up or with a custom .nfo file. NextPVR has plug-in called ImageGrabLite that will do the rename and custom .nfo so that the files show up in the Kodi TV Library. It works but there are some warts and nothing will show up in Kodi until it has finished recording.

The Kodi Live TV integration is really kind of a hack at this point. It works but the experience is rather lacking. Although it supports multiple backend servers none is really fully integrated into Kodi. NextPVR has a special plugin that runs in Kodi that can be used to watch live TV and schedule recording. The specail NextPVR plug-in essentially recreates the Native NextPVR interface within Kodi.

Also: The Library format created by NextPVR with the ImageGrabLite plug-in will also scan perfectly in Plex. I actually use Plex for phones and tablets.

Maybe thing have greatly improved since I last used that feature or xbmc for that matter, but the whole mysql and adavancedsettings.xml was a huge pain in the ass for me. i hated every second of it. IT shouldn't be that difficult thats for darn sure.

[autoboy]

Google allows employees to work on a special project on fridays. Maybe this open source version of SageTV is Jeff's new special project. It certainly fits in with Google's AndriodTV projects and would be able to provide a DVR backend for that platform which would be my ideal setup.

I'll come back when cable card is reliable. I still use SageTV for my local files. That said, I had to switch to Tivo a few months ago and I'm really enjoying Tivo's features especially their new OnePass feature that ads streaming episodes to the show's recordings list.

[samgreco]

So after a month or so on Amazon Fire/Kodi/ServerWMC, and after seeing this news, I decided to go back to Sage for TV. As I record only OTA, it's not an issue for me.

However, I remember now why I started this trek in the first place. Since I get most of what I watch now via streaming, Sage and Playon really kinda suck at it.

So I have decided that until things change, the only answer is both, the way I left it a month ago. So I'll use the AFTV for online content and Sage for TV and my Movie library, etc.

Not ideal, but it works. So my wish list is better (WAY better) online support. If that can happen.

[rkulagow]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

the proof will be the EPG - if that is dealt with first, then we'll know that Sage as an entity has hope

(I work for Schedules Direct)

slugger has created an EPG grabber that interfaces with our JSON service; the grabber is an approved application and Gracenote (new name for Tribune Media Services) gave us permission to provide data to SageTV even before it was Open Source.

The API under development will have at least 14 days of data for most stations, and up to 30 for some; it all depends on how fixed a schedule is.

If Google can't provide EPG then there's a backup plan for people that wish to remain on SageTV.

[OneOfMany]

Fantastic news!! Haven't seen so many posts in a thread in years.. Happy posts that is .

Still running daily with 4x PC clients and is rock solid!

Welcome back and looking forward to the future with Sage!

Grant

[skiingwiz]

Originally Posted by Narflex

My current plan for this is to take all the relevant changes we've made in the past 3+ years at Google and merge them into the codebase from when we were acquired. (I've already done most of that work, I'm leaving out all the Google Fiber specific stuff since that's not relevant and just clogs up the codebase for y'all) I'll then run that version myself for awhile to ensure it's solid and then that'll be what we open source. The only code we've changed since acquisition that'll be released is basically the Java code. We didn't touch the native windows/linux code much here at all (w/ the exception that we wrote a whole new thing that did the recording/playback portion, i.e. network encoder/streamer, but that piece won't be open sourced as it wouldn't really be of use to you all)

Awesome! Sage is coming back, and coming back with new features (even if only a few.)

I can't wait to get my hands on this code.

[michaeldjcox]

"Come back" - I never left.

I just spent more on two HD300s than they would have cost new.

There is still nothing out there that comes close to SageTV.

Going open source is great news.

For me the TV side is pretty much nailed in SageTV and I will be hoping to improve the online content side. It would be great to negotiate SageTV clients for some of those locked down online video sources that appear in other setup boxes and internet enabled TVs e.g on the roku and the SkyTVs roku rebranded "nowTV" box. In the UK this would be things like 4OD, ITVPlayer, Demand5.

Its there where SageTV is beginning to look bettered by other stuff.

Ready to code!

Many thanks Jeff.

Michael

[Narflex]

Originally Posted by jreichen

I wouldn't want any new database engine to require a separate installation. That's an unnecessary headache. It would need to be an embedded engine similar to how it was done with the web servers.

It's hard to say how much effort it would take until the source is released. It may have been written with a good abstraction layer or Jeff may have already done it given that he said the locking has been greatly improved in "8.something".

I don't know anything about the Wiz.bin format or engine. It will be interesting to find out.

It would be a huge undertaking to replace the database system. It's heavily integrated into how the whole architecture works...it's totally custom; but makes writing all the other code in the system much easier IMHO.

Originally Posted by traker1001

Jeff / Narflex

I know occasionally Google sends out a hand to the Visually impaired community in there products. I don't suppose any of those changes included any kind of readability regarding Text to speech services?

You say the network encoder/streamer won't be Open sourced but it will be accessible, I.E. API? (Sorry if I don't know/understand what I am asking or if this is a dumb question.)

Sorry, there weren't any changes for Text to Speech services. We did add in CEA-708 closed caption support...so that may be nice for some of the hearing impaired (although overall 708 isn't that much better than 608).

The network encoder API has been open since 2004 I think (a long while back). The streamer was always inside the java code (and will still be in the open sourced version)...we just moved it to native code for Google Fiber for performance reasons.

Originally Posted by SHS

Will you keeping the Google UI Layout but change image?.
I do like how ver 8.? was done from all video I saw from Support Help with Google Fiber
I do like how TV guide was done
I also like Info bar
I also Current Recordings | Scheduled | Manage | Search thing
And also saw bunch other cool stuff but I'm sure some of it of that will be remove that cool.
But I do have ask did ever add this feature to Google Fiber?, Delete Recordings where it really keeps the recording for restore it if need be buy put it folder called Delete Recordings Folder where it can automatic delete at later time say like automatic delete ever few day base on when show/movie was first delete to help with accident delete which my brother good at hehe as it a real pain to recover and why I ash this sometime the dishnetwork hopper has and so I think that this would be very useful if haven't add ready add it.

We don't have any plans to put out the STV for the Google Fiber UI. We never did implement an 'undelete' feature...but it wouldn't be all that hard to do because there's now an asynchronous deletion feature (although it was mostly there before too); and using that one could make other modifications to make that defer even longer based on disk space and then write other code to allow restoring those files.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

WOW WOW WOW!!!! Great news!!! I'm glad I still check the SageTV forum once in a while.

Thanks for getting Google to agree to this, Jeff. Was it hard to get them to make SageTV open source?

I know it's better late than never, but I'm just imagining how much better SageTV would've been by now if it was made open source a few years back when many SageTV developers were still using it. I'm guessing there are quite a few developers that abandoned SageTV in the last 2-3 years. Hopefully, they will have interest in SageTV again now that it is open sourced.

It wasn't hard to get them to agree. Google is very supportive of the open source community as a whole IMO.

[SHS]

Thanks Jeff, I look forward to see it

[pjpjpjpj]

Hey Jeff, here's a question that no one has mentioned yet...

Is there still a legal reason that you - or someone who you teamed with - couldn't order a batch of HD300s from the same company/factory that made them before?

It's assumed that the all of the code/design/firmware/whatever-else inside of the HD300s was proprietary to Sage, just like the software program itself, and when Google bought it, that all went to Google. But since Google has decided to share the programming of the software, are they inherently also sharing all the stuff that makes the extenders tick?

Obviously there would be some (presumably large) number of extenders that would have to be ordered as a minimum, but is the code now "freed" by Google to have someone order a big batch of extenders? Or is there a separate "you can't make money off Sage" deal in place that still prevents this?

As much as everyone is ecstatic about the OS news, if there was hope that HD300s (or 400s??) could once again be made available, this place would friggin explode.

(I also realize that making extenders available would go against any idea that Google might have had of making Sage OS in order to encourage people to use GoogleTV devices to serve it up...)