Some issues with the HD-PVR

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by cat6man

q: where do i find this "delay_to_wait_after_tuning" parameter??

cheers

It's in the SageTV folder in the sage.properties file. (at least in the latest beta release)

[71_Cuda]

Originally Posted by sdsean

I'm only using stereo.
I haven't tried covering the IR blaster yet but it doesn't sound like that will matter.

I did change the delay_to_wait to 4000, and that seemed to help a bit but still get
the power cycling everyonce in a while and the occasional non-start.

Although I have the STB set to 720p exclusively, I'm wondering. . .maybe the power cycling blips in the resolution that are causing this problem? (ie. swtiching from commerical to normal programming and them having different fps or resolutions).

But the non-start wouldn't be that. . .

Either way I wouldn't go so far to say that its not usable at all, its just a bit annoying, enough that I can't use it for full time tv watching for everyone in the house. . .just me.

I'm using component from the STB directly to the HD-PVR, and not using a pass through.

Then from the computer I go HDMI to Pioneer Elite Receiver then out to TV.
Doubting highly this as anything to do with video card/tv setup since the STB is plugged direclty into the HD-PVR.

The next time you get a non-start on a recording, try doing something with your STB (like changing the channel or turning it off and on) before power cycling the HD-PVR. See if that brings the HD-PVR back to life.

As I stated previously, I was having similar problems with non-starts on recordings - only mine was every 2-3 days. Power cycling the HD-PVR and restarting the recording always worked for me. But then one time I decided to try to check what the STB was putting out and the HD-PVR came back to life without me having to power cycle it. I think it was because I had the HDMI cable connected from the STB to the TV. After a few days of the TV not being set to the HDMI input, the video output from the STB would fail and I would get non-starts on recordings. I unplugged the HDMI cable over a week ago and haven't had a failed recording yet. That's a record for me - my previous record was maybe 3 days. I saw similar non-starts on recordings when I originally had it set-up with an SA cable box that would always go to sleep.

In short, make sure you're getting the desired output from your STB at the time these recordings are failing.

[Skirge01]

You know, there is ONE thing I have yet to try in order to fix the momentary stop/start of my HD-PVR... using the stereo connections rather than the SPDIF. From day one, I have never used those jacks, but I think I'm going to give it a shot. I have tried every other possible thing that's been mentioned on this forum, so I think it's worth a shot.

[sundansx]

hey, when one of you guys get a lock up, instead of power cycling the HD-PVR, try going into device manager and disabling the device, then reenable the device. If that process gets things running again, I might have a batch file for you to use to do this. Mine does not lock up, but it is a C2 with analog stereo, and I dont record too much with it yet (SyFy needs to get going, and Caprica ain't the answer..can you say..Space O.C.)

[sdsean]

Well I finally changed the STB to wait 4000 and covered the IR receiver.

I just had a bunch of failed recordings this week but it looks like part of the problem was that the lineup changed on me and it was actually my HDHR that failed this week. . .

I'll let you know more after like thursday once I get a bunch of recordings.

[rerooks]

I had some recent problems with stability, sometimes my box would lock up in less than a day.

I looked at the signal that was coming from the STB, and I could see pixelation, once every few seconds. My thought is that the pixelation was screwing up the HD-PVR. I had my STB box do a S/N ratio analysis, and it was fine, the first thing I could think of (after checking for loose connections) that would be messing up the signal was the amplifier from my old cable installation (I have FIOSTV now).

Anyway, I removed the amplifier, and my S/N ratio went from 24 db to 23 db...but the picture now is very stable, and for the last several days, so has my HD-PVR.

Now, I have had the amplifier with FIOS since October, so maybe the amp is going bad. I know that it is several years ago.

So, it might be a good idea to check the quality of the signal, since it has an effect on the stability.

[Chriscic]

I know get some glitching in the Comcast signal and have long wondered if that's mucking up my HD-PVR. Switching to Dish this weekend, so assuming I get a clean signal on that will report back on whether things work any better.

[kemputer26]

I started with lockups several times per day. I noticed that my lockups were predictable when I would rapidly change channel...pressing channel-up several times in a row could usually force a lockup, especially if I was just "starting up" an HDPVR and then immediately asking the STB to tune another channel.

I changed that delay_to_wait_after_tuning parameter to 4000...and could no longer "force" a lockup that way...but still got intermittent lockups once every 2-3 days (slight improvement; even though we never thought we were rapid-firing instructions, this did seem to help). Drudged on that way for the past month or so, starting to look into timer options for the power outlet but wishing for alternatives because of what a kludge that is.

I had always scoffed at the notion that it could be heat-related, and I'd measured the temperature of the air between the STB and HDPVR at 105f (and ambient around the rest of the STB at 69f). This is well within a company like Hauppauge's test range (my opinion), so I'd never moved it off the STB for heat purposes.

The IR blaster is so low-powered that I never figured I'd try the "duct tape" method (covering the IR receiver window on the HDPVR) as I was skeptical that the HDPVR could "see" the IR blaster. I really wish I'd tried the duct tape method...as I think that the IR blasting at the HDPVR may have been what was causing it.

I moved the HDPVR from off the top of the set top box because I had to get behind the desk to rewire something...and just got lazy and never put it back on top of the STB. That was over a week ago, no lockups since, which is a new record for us by at least 4-5 days.

Now, here's where I have to acknowledge that there could be several reasons, and the one I believe is IR related. The box is no longer right on top of the STB, so the IR window is out of line of sight entirely (and quite a bit further away). The box is also sitting on its side, allowing better airflow, so it *could* be heat related...I'll let you be the judge.

Which leads me to this: Is there a set of codes or a particular brand(s) of STB's that tend to have this problem more than others, potentially because the remote-control commands of those devices can "confuse" the HDPVR? I have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4250HD.

I also believe that there are several situations that can cause this behavior, which is likely why it is so hard to troubleshoot. The solution is not only the thing that you did *last*...could also be the things leading up to it. So, in the interest of that, if you haven't tried everything then don't give up until you have...even the ones that sound implausible.

Lastly, for Sundansx...I had never tried cycling drivers from Device Manager, but I definitely will if I get another lock-up.

[Skirge01]

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I think I have found my issue with the HD-PVR. I have 2 D2's running side-by-side, both with the exact same setup in Sage and my DirecTV boxes, mods (i.e. tape over the IR), and the same driver. I made a single change to one of the D2's in that it is no longer using SPDIF.

We had a MAJOR thunderstorm earlier this week and I KNOW the satellite signal was going in and out. At one point, my SPDIF-enabled HD-PVR must have turned on and off (that very quick, momentary stop-start thing) about 5 or 6 times inside of a minute. My SPDIF-disabled HD-PVR? Never even blinked once. Now, if only I could get Hauppauge to believe that this was caused by their drivers, as opposed to my use of Sage. Sadly, the only way they believe that is if it happens in TMT, which means a total configuration change on my server, plus needing to hook up a monitor, kb, and mouse, plus the loss of a tuner. To me, that's unacceptable. Maybe I'll try to convince them one more time, just for kicks.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I think I have found my issue with the HD-PVR. I have 2 D2's running side-by-side, both with the exact same setup in Sage and my DirecTV boxes, mods (i.e. tape over the IR), and the same driver. I made a single change to one of the D2's in that it is no longer using SPDIF.

We had a MAJOR thunderstorm earlier this week and I KNOW the satellite signal was going in and out. At one point, my SPDIF-enabled HD-PVR must have turned on and off (that very quick, momentary stop-start thing) about 5 or 6 times inside of a minute. My SPDIF-disabled HD-PVR? Never even blinked once. Now, if only I could get Hauppauge to believe that this was caused by their drivers, as opposed to my use of Sage. Sadly, the only way they believe that is if it happens in TMT, which means a total configuration change on my server, plus needing to hook up a monitor, kb, and mouse, plus the loss of a tuner. To me, that's unacceptable. Maybe I'll try to convince them one more time, just for kicks.

What it seems is happening is that the HD-PVR firmware or drivers don't handle breaks in the AC3 stream very gracefully. To the point where the HD-PVR becomes unresponsive. Whereas if you're using the analog input or telling your STB to convert to PCM the HD-PVR is always going to be receiving a continuous signal, unlike with AC3 pass-through.

I've always used SPDIF on my HD-PVR since I bought it. I only noticed problems once I switched to recording the AC3 stream dirctly from my STB. I've since switched back to the last pre-AC3 driver and set my cable box to output PCM. I haven't had a single problem with the HD-PVR since. The cable box its hooked to has given me a couple problems but the HD-PVR kept on trucking.

I wish there were a different interface for chaning the HD-PVR options other than through TMT. I run a headless server and want as little as possible installed on it. At some point TMT stopped working on my server and I can no longer change the options. I would like to try the newest driver but use AAC encoding like the old pre-AC3 driver and see if it gives me the same stability.

[Skirge01]

I'm not sure what the DirecTV boxes output their audio as, but I don't know of any way to get surround sound besides the way I'm currently doing it. Hauppauge really needs to fix their drivers. I'm going to give the latest ones a shot this weekend, since I'm still on the previous release, and see what happens.

[TechJunkie]

Great information. After reading the recent posts I stop given this some thought since I started having lockup issues. I never ran the spdif audio mode since I am using Verizon FIOS STBs. I also never experienced lockups with a ver C2 or ver E1. With the lastest beta drivers fixing the SPDIF issues with FIOS STB I have switched my audio mode over to it. I have been experiencing lockups regularly ever since. I will be switching back to the analog audio and see if my lockups stop.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm not sure what the DirecTV boxes output their audio as, but I don't know of any way to get surround sound besides the way I'm currently doing it. Hauppauge really needs to fix their drivers. I'm going to give the latest ones a shot this weekend, since I'm still on the previous release, and see what happens.

If you're getting surround sound then it is outputting AC3. PCM would only output stereo.

[jack_leach]

This is getting interesting. Taddeusz, could you clarify this for me:

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I've always used SPDIF on my HD-PVR since I bought it. I only noticed problems once I switched to recording the AC3 stream dirctly from my STB. I've since switched back to the last pre-AC3 driver and set my cable box to output PCM.

Are you saying that you're still using SPDIF (fiber) but that it's only carrying 2-channel audio? Because of continuing stability problems with my two HD-PVR's (currently AC3 via SPDIF), I'm considering changing to 2-channel audio but thought that I'd need to use the RCA audio jacks and not SPDIF. Thanks!

Jack

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by jack_leach

This is getting interesting. Taddeusz, could you clarify this for me:



Are you saying that you're still using SPDIF (fiber) but that it's only carrying 2-channel audio? Because of continuing stability problems with my two HD-PVR's (currently AC3 via SPDIF), I'm considering changing to 2-channel audio but thought that I'd need to use the RCA audio jacks and not SPDIF. Thanks!

Jack

Yes, I have my Scientific Atlanta STB set to output uncompressed stereo PCM. It actually has two options for the digital output, Dolby Digital and Other. "Other," of course, is stereo PCM like you'd get from the digital output of a standard CD player. Because of this my STB is always going to be outputting a digital audio signal even when there's a break in the AC3 stream its receiving. Granted, I don't get the advantage of having surround sound but at the same time I've had a relatively worry free month since I made the change.

Within that month I've only had two times withing a few days of each other where the STB decided to wig out and stop working. All the HD-PVR recorded was black at whatever resolution the last tuned channel was sending out (I also have my STB set to output the native resolution of each channel). The first time I power cycled both the HD-PVR and the STB. The second time I only cycled the STB which is when I figured out it was actually the problem. I had suspected as much since SageTV was saving a recording, just a messed up one. When the HD-PVR messed up you either get no recording or one with zero length. These actually had a significant size.

[jack_leach]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Yes, I have my Scientific Atlanta STB set to output uncompressed stereo PCM.

Thanks! I'll have to see if my Motorola STB has similar options. I've resisted making this change because it seemed stupid to give up the surround sound, but it's beginning to look like this is my only option (until, hopefully, a new HD-PVR driver fixes this problem).

Jack

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Now, if only I could get Hauppauge to believe that this was caused by their drivers, as opposed to my use of Sage. Sadly, the only way they believe that is if it happens in TMT, which means a total configuration change on my server, plus needing to hook up a monitor, kb, and mouse, plus the loss of a tuner. To me, that's unacceptable. Maybe I'll try to convince them one more time, just for kicks.

That's a pathetic POV from Hauppauge. Obviously Sage users are a large proportion of HD-PVR use (I bet at least 30% if not much higher), and if there's an issue there Hauppauge should work with Sage to fix. Just lame.

Does anyone know if Beyond TV and/or GB-PVR users are having similar problems?

My biggest frustration is that there's no central area of discussion (e.g. Hauppauge forums) for everyone to come together and nail down the problems and solution.

I guess I'm email Hauppauge myself and see what they say.

[Skirge01]

Tell me about it! I was really ticked off when they had me verify that the issue wasn't occurring in TMT. In the 2 hours I tried to cause it, I couldn't. But, 2 hours doesn't leave much room for trying different scenarios. I was writing up my support details and realized there was one scenario I haven't "tested", so I'm going to try that before I contact them.

[rerooks]

I still have occasional problems with the HD-PVR (I guess most people do). Power cycling the device seems to work, and I do it daily via a timer.

It would be great if we could have the device off and just turn it on when we wish to record a show. I found a ethernet based power strip, for about $100:

http://www.digital-loggers.com/techtips/lpc_faqs.html

This device can be controlled via a DOS prompt, and they show a perl script to control it. They also provide C code to control it. It looks like each outlet can be controlled individually, so could could plug a HD-PVR into each one.

If someone could write a plug-in for sage that would power cycle this device (or some other device) right before a recording, or turn it on and then off between recordings, it would fix most of our problems. Of course, this plug-in would have to know which tuner is connected to which outlet.

[Chriscic]

Every time I have power cycled I've lost the IR blaster until I rebooted my system (WHS server). So I can't just power cycle. I'm about to switch to USB-UIRT for channel-changing though. Maybe that will allow me to just flip the HD-PVR on and off when there's an issue, which is still a big pain if it's in the basement, but at least it's something I can instruct my wife how to do.

Skirge01, I'm just waiting to see how everything works once I switch to Dish this Saturday, and then if still problems (hoping against hope that somehow glitches in the Comcast signal are causing my glitches and lockups).

If I'm still having the same problems, and Hauppauge says only TMT issues count, then time for us to submit bug reports to Sage. At least that way if it's not Sage (my gut tells me it's not but who knows) maybe they'll try to get to the bottom of it with Hauppauge. The two companies seem to have some communication going.

If I can make the time I'd also like to set up a temporary Sage server on my secondary machine and play around with TMT to see if I can recreate the problem. I can get the lock-ups channel-surfing (albeit very slowly with the tuning delay) in Sage; one would think surfing around in TMT would cause the same.