Backup solutions?

[sdsean]

So I've never really worried too much about back-up.. .
Usually I have all the digital media that I really care about on multiple
HDDs, and that's been good enough.

But now as i start amassing more and more GB (getting on TB) that I actually want to keep, I'm wondering what folks might be using for backups?

DVDs are far too small to make it manageable, blu-ray is better, but still a bit out of hand with the number of discs that you'd need and its far too expensive. . .

SSDs just for backup purposes could work, but that might be cost prohibitive given the amount of stuff. . .

I thought tape would be a good option, but boy was I sorely mistaken.. .
the pricing for a decent size tape drive is a much as my best TV in the house (not too mention uses SCSI). . .

Of course I just did some random searches on newegg and what not.. .
so anyone please feel free to point me in the right direction. . .

[bastafidli]

Buy two external drives. One for your house and one for your parents/children/friend house. Then perform local backups to your external drive at home and remote backups to your harddrive outside of your home. You can use software such as crashplan to do this. In case of local failure restore from your local drive. In case you get burglarized or our house burns down, restore from your remote drive.

[stanger89]

First question you must ask your self is do you really need a backup, or do you already have one? Is this digital media ripped from physical media, such that you could re-rip in the future if something happened to the electronic copy?

If you're talking about irreplaceable data, then your only real options are DVD-R, BD-RE, Standalone/Disconnected HDDs, Tape, Online. None are terribly desireable, but standalone HDDs are probably cheapest and/or most practical.

Now, if your worried about data that can be replaced, then your worry isn't about the data itself, but the work to rip/digitize it. In that case you don't need a backup solution, you need redundancy, which leads you to RAID, unRAID, Duplication, etc.

[electron]

If you are talking about backing up TV recordings, and they are that important, then I would go the NAS route with RAID5 support. If you want to record directly to that NAS, then you probably would need RAID10 (plus get an external USB dock with a 2TB drive so you can backup the NAS, since RAID shouldn't be considered backup).

Personally, I can't imagine TV recordings being that important (if they are, buy the show on DVD, which is a lot cheaper than buying a high end NAS).

[KarylFStein]

I bought an inexpensive removable drive cage where the drive is enclosed in a metal tray, (added protection when the drive is moved/stored off-site), and two large HDDs. I installed HotSwap! so I could "safely eject" the disk even though the controller and cage are supposed to be hot-swappable. I used TrueCrypt to make encrypted volumes on the back-up drives as some added security if someone swiped my drive, (not that my data would be that interesting to anyone--important stuff like my password vault data is already encrypted). Finally, I set up GoodSync to keep the removable drive up-to-date with the system daily, (there are free tools to do this, but ages ago when I was looking for a sync utility, GoodSync was the best fit--still works great and upgrades have all been free).

Each week, (well, when I remember), I do this:

1) Unmount the TrueCrypt volume and eject the disk from my server,
2) Take the disk off-site, pick up the other one and bring it home, and
3) Slide the previously-off-site disk in my server, and mount the TrueCrypt volume.

Unfortunately, this requires some manual effort and I'm not always good about doing it on a regular basis. However, I recently bought and installed a VPN-capable router for the off-site location and have set up a VPN tunnel with my home so I don't have to drive over there when they call and ask a computer question. So, I'm thinking about just putting an inexpensive Linux box or NAS at the remote site and doing all my backups over the VPN link, (and offer to keep a backup of their stuff at my house).

I thought about a USB or eSATA enclosure to make the swapping easier, but at the time, this was a less expensive solution and I didn't have to worry about another power outlet or drive compatibility.

[brainbone]

A cheap trayless sata hotswap bay, with an internal sata->usb converter (connected to one of the USB headers on your motherboard) works well as a tape-drive replacement. Then simply use low cost sata HDs in the size needed for backup.

If you end up with a number of bare SATA drives that need a safe place to live while not in the hotswap bay, you could look into protective HD cases.

[SWKerr]

I use SyncToy2.1 (Free from Microsoft) to keep mirror images of the directories on my server I want backed up on an special backup drive in the server. I schedule it to run daily at like 4am. There is no special structure just duplicates directories in two places. SyncToy will only copy or delete what has changed and after the initial copy usually runs in minutes. If a accidentally delete something I just need to make sure I copy it back from the backup drive before the sync runs. I like the simplicity of it.

Every month or so I make a manual copy to an external eSATA drive which I keep at work. Pretty simple and I can take the external drive with me some place and have access to my moves etc.

I don't backup my DVR recordings as I could easily find those on the internet in the event of a catastrophe or just wait for them to run again. I could solve that problem with more disk drives but it is not worth the money to me. Right now everything I really care about fits on one big 1.5TB hard drive.

DVDs and Tapes cost too much and run to slow. Hard drives and Network storage are the way to go.

[tmiranda]

SWKerr - Thanks for that pointer. I've been using DeltaCopy but it is a little flakey and I've been looking for a simple replacement.

Tom

[valnar]

External USB hard drives and Second Copy

[davephan]

The cheapest way to protect your DVD rips is to use USB hard drives. Once you rip all your DVDs, you won't want to repeat that project. It is better to backup the rips than re-rip. The portable drives could be used and can be stored off site. You can buy cases and drives separately. That way you can get a 2 TB drive in the cases.

I have a couple of these cases:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0300746

These cases work with either IDE or SATA.

Another way to protect the data is with RAID. RAID 5 works, but if one drive fails, and a second drive fails before the first drive is replaced, and completes rebuilding, all your data is gone. It can take a long time to rebuild. So, you are very vulnerable for many hours.

RAID 6 is better. Two hard drives can fail without data loss, except RAID 6 controllers are expensive.

RAID 10 is OK, unless you are unlucky and the wrong two drives fail, then all your data is gone.

RAID 1 pairs. If both drives fail in the same pair, then all your data is gone, but only from that pair. The other drive pairs are protected.

I already had a 2 TB drive fail within a week of purchase. All the data was protected. I lost nothing. I replaced the bad drive (for free) and lost no video recordings.

You could protect the operating system with RAID, but I don't bother with that since the operating system is protected by daily images. I think it is more important to be able to recover the operating system to a point in time in the past, when the system was working perfectly, than it is to protecting the operating system from crashing due to a hard drive failure. Although, you would protect against both situations with RAID 1 on the operating system.

Dave

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by valnar

External USB hard drives and Second Copy

How does SecondCopy compare to SyncToy? I think I tried the SecondCopy trial a while ago but never purchased it and went with DeltaCopy because it used rsync which meshed well with my mixed Windows/Linux network. My Linux NAS is no longer is use so now I no longer need to use rsync.

I setup SyncToy last night and found it easy and functional. If SecondCopy is better I'd certainly pony up the $ for it. What think you?

[valnar]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

How does SecondCopy compare to SyncToy?

I never used Synctoy before. In typical Internet fashion, I researched all the choices out there, found that Second Copy had a lot of good press and downloaded it. It was no more scientific than that.

I use TeraByte's IFW/IFL for my main imaging program, which usually consists of my C: drive on all my PC's. When I want to backup or "sync" compressed data though, like movies and music, I use SecondCopy to an external USB drive. I used to be really into customizing things, like rsync scripts on Linux, etc. Nowadays I don't have that kind of time and I'd rather buy something where the thinking was done for me. But if you are into CLI and love scripts, I recommend TeraByte's products for your imaging needs too. $50 gets you a program that will run on every OS from DOS to Windows 2008 Server. There is no separate $500 Server version like Acronis TI.

Edit: I just downloaded and looked at Synctoy. It looks very basic. I didn't think SecondCopy was all that extravagant but it seems much more advanced than Synctoy.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by valnar

"]There is no separate $500 Server version like Acronis TI.

That's the reason to avoid using server operating systems for SageTV. The server imaging software is very expensive.

I don't know if there are any advantages running a server OS for SageTV. The imaging software cost is certainly a disadvantage!

Dave

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by davephan

That's the reason to avoid using server operating systems for SageTV. The server imaging software is very expensive.

R-Drive Image works on all version of Windows, XP and up, including Server 2003, and is relatively cheap at $45. The reason for the XP or better requirement is to make use of the Microsoft Volume Shadow Copy Service, allowing imaging of a drive that is in use, with no corruption of the image made.

[reggie14]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a recommendation for good imaging software that will do scheduled incremental backups to network shares? That basically means I can't use the backup functionality built into Win7, since it will only do full backups to network locations. It also means I can't use Acronis Backup and Recovery, since there's a bug in it (basically, you can't backup a Win7 box to a Linux files server), and Acronis says fixing it is a low-priority.

Oddly, Acronis True Image does work with Linux-based file servers, but from what I understand it isn't very good at automatically managing and cleaning up old backup files. Plus, I've tried it in Win7 and it also seems a little buggy. It seems to work, but that makes me nervous. The (apparent) lack of a good automatic management process for old backups is a deal killer though.

So, what's left? I'm kind of concerned about cost. I have 4 machines I'd like to back-up, (Sage server, desktop computer, my laptop, and my GF's laptop), and 4 licenses of imaging software can get pretty expensive. I'm going to take a look at ShadowProtect Desktop, but it's a little on the expensive side. I'd prefer a cheaper alternative if there's a good one out there.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a recommendation for good imaging software that will do scheduled incremental backups to network shares? That basically means I can't use the backup functionality built into Win7, since it will only do full backups to network locations. It also means I can't use Acronis Backup and Recovery, since there's a bug in it (basically, you can't backup a Win7 box to a Linux files server), and Acronis says fixing it is a low-priority.

Really? That's weird. I mean, I haven't used Acronis to dump to a Linux-based server in a couple years or so, but it worked fine then. I don't see why it would matter if your network shares are hosted on Linux or Windows--it should look the same to Acronis (??).

It seems like every other version of TI is buggy. I started with 9 and had some problems with my hardware not being supported, 10 was solid, I had all sorts of headaches with 11, then 2009 came out and it was solid, (and I got free upgrade licenses for 2009 due to my issues with 11). I never tried 2010 as I switched to WHS, but am thinking of putting 2009 back on my computers just for "Try and Decide". I mean, I have 5 licenses just sitting around, so might as well...

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

Really? That's weird. I mean, I haven't used Acronis to dump to a Linux-based server in a couple years or so, but it worked fine then. I don't see why it would matter if your network shares are hosted on Linux or Windows--it should look the same to Acronis (??).

Keep in mind that this is unique to the combination of Win7, Acronis Backup and Recovery (not TrueImage), and, in my case, unRAID. Acronis B&R will back up to unRAID fine if it runs on WinXP (I haven't tried Vista).

Since I had the business-class software, I had pretty good support. I probably spent 6 hours on the phone and in WebEx sessions with Acronis support. I had my case elevated to second tier support, then the developers. Earlier today I got a report back from the support rep handling my case, and, in his own words, he's "not very optimistic" that I'll see this resolved anytime soon. I've got to hand it to then, though, I fully expected them to blame it on the linux server. But they didn't do that. They took responsibility for the bug, and their support guys earned my respect for that. Not enough for me to keep a product I can't use, but enough that I'll consider using Acronis in the future if their developers can get their act together.

[valnar]

I gave up Acronis TI after version 10. When I found Image for *, I was sold. It has all the aesthetic appeal of an old DOS program, and I love it for that. It's also very scriptable, so that should help with whatever automation you want.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Keep in mind that this is unique to the combination of Win7, Acronis Backup and Recovery (not TrueImage), and, in my case, unRAID. Acronis B&R will back up to unRAID fine if it runs on WinXP (I haven't tried Vista).

Since I had the business-class software, I had pretty good support. I probably spent 6 hours on the phone and in WebEx sessions with Acronis support. I had my case elevated to second tier support, then the developers. Earlier today I got a report back from the support rep handling my case, and, in his own words, he's "not very optimistic" that I'll see this resolved anytime soon. I've got to hand it to then, though, I fully expected them to blame it on the linux server. But they didn't do that. They took responsibility for the bug, and their support guys earned my respect for that. Not enough for me to keep a product I can't use, but enough that I'll consider using Acronis in the future if their developers can get their act together.

Ohhh, my bad. But just to extend on that, even though I was a peon TI user, I *did* get to second-level support with my TI11 issues and notes of "developer" responses. No phone or WebEx, but a free upgrade of all my 11 licenses to TI2009 . I felt that they were very fair in that regard.

Anyway, I was in a similar boat; they knew and stated it was an issue, but frankly weren't going to fix it in 11. I didn't push so hard with my 9 issues as it was pretty simple to avoid by changing BIOS settings, but maybe I'd have gotten free upgrades to 10 if I had!

I do like Acronis and the honesty I got from them, but I think they're too focused on having a new "upgrade" every year to advertize and get the upgrade money--at least on the consumer side. I guess everyone's got to choose their own business model as there is no absolute winner for any given case...

[reggie14]

Has anyone used Paragon Backup & Recovery 10 Suite? The features look pretty good.